Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

Why haven't you answered this yet?

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Geez, sorry for trying to do something with my faith. I have this idea; let me run with it & don't push your tactless discouragement on me.

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Tactless...? If I were being tactless i would have told you that being a Christian is a bad thing. Which I don't. It's the way you are asserting it that is. Preaching to people is not a good idea, especially where you are saying...

If you want to help people, there are better ways to go about it than preaching to them. If you wish to help someone, do it because you are good person, not because god told you to. If it is only because god told you to, it's disingenuous. That is why I said that preaching it is a bad idea. They will see it your graciousness as nothing more than a tactic to try and convert them.

Don't you see that telling people they are wrong in the spiritual path they've chosen is hurtful to them? I don't see this as a good assertion of faith... just undue judgment.

As long as you are doing something that will potentially hurt other people, I'm perfectly entitled to question. It is not "forcing", that is what you are trying to do to other people.

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All that was pretty tactless.
I do, but who says I'm going to go up to someone & say, "You suck. I don't. Yay God. Come worship Jesus."? I'm not going to do that. Just saying "I love you" to someone can mean a lot.

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Actually, no. That wasn't. Maybe saying it was a stupid idea, which it is due to the fact you could end up getting killed (I know that in the book you follow that it does not ask you to martyr yourself) might have been... but the rest was fine. You see it as tactless because you disagree with it.



But on the sole idea of making them a Christian, it isn't.

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On the contrary, I would think the ultimate act of love is getting them into heaven.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

This ministry isn't solely out to make converts; that's all you're attacking. Another goal of Glow would be to give people a hand. As I said before, the purpose of Glow would be to help out anyone who was in need of any kind of assistance.

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Not to someone who practices a different faith. It could be considered an insult to the nth degree. Basically, by that tactic, you'd be saying their idea of faith is wrong, which is judgment which goes against Matthew 7:1.

Trying to change someone's religion is wrong. What if I were to say that I wanted to convert you to something else, hypothetically? I don't think you'd much appreciate that.

If someone want's to convert to Christianity, then they should do it by their own means by going to a church or asking a friend who's christian, not having it crammed down their throat by a stranger.

It's not like there isn't a shortage of chruches they could go to if they actually wanted a way... that is if Christianity is the way they wish to go.

Also, Christianity isn't the only path to enlightenment. If someone follows a different faith, you'd best respect that and not try to convert them.

I'm not saying it's wrong to be a Christian, but I am also saying is fine to be something else, too!

I just happened to think that trying to curry following this way is not necessarily right. I've had people try to convert me at least 200 times in my life... and I'm sorry... it's annoying. If they are meant to follow that faith, they will come to it when the time is right on their own. Not by someone being pushy.

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You keep dodging my question of "Who's going to want to go to church?".
How do you know that?

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I love how you call this "cramming faith"...

EVERY problem you said here has already been answered here..

The person says "no" or "no thank you" or something unsavory, you say "my bad" or "sorry to bother you" and walk away. I don't see how this is forcing someone.

It's pretty simple, and it's hardly disrespectful..

Here is what disrespectful would be
"You're going to hell"
"I don't care, leave me alone"
"No, You're going to hell and I'm not going to leave you alone until you pray with me"
"NO" *walks away"
*chases, throwing holy water* "I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY BURNING IN HELL!"

that's what you make it sound like he's doing...

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Here's an article I read which was a big inspiration to me. Not once did these people say, "You're going to hell" or do any Bible-thumping of the sort.

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I believe I answered this by saying that anyone who is actively seeking to become a christian. Churches are always there. Maybe even someone who wants to learn more about the faith as well.



By saying this, you're telling me you would walk up to a Buhddist and tell them they are wrong.

Because I have done more than enough theological research to know that most faiths teach the same principles and have the sense to realize that people need to find their own spiritual path, whether it is christ or not.

I see spirituality as a stained glass lamp. All of the beams of light are a different color, but all are getting the light from the same source. Christianity is one of those beams, other faiths are others. But at the root of it all, is the capability to do good. This is why I feel conversion is completely unecessary.

Just because you follow christianity does not mean the world has to. It's not your place to change a person's faith.

Also, bible thumping is not always fire and brimstone. It's those who preach in public vehemently too...

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I think it's abundantly clear that the point of this is NOT to go up to people and say, "hey, if you're not Christian, you're wrong. Wanna be right?"

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

My point exactly, Sree.

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It's also the fact that he would be bothering them in the first place... No other religion seems to bother people on the street so often... unless it were something else (but I won't get into that).

Point being, is that is just rude to try and convert people outside of a church or a religious gathering (such as a revival tent).

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Why are you only focusing on the conversion aspect? Did you read the article I linked to?

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What he is doing is still walking up to them and telling them about his religion with the intent to convert anyways. That is the undeniable goal of that 3 story thing.

But, as I said... christianity is not the only way. What you are doing by this is not allowing them another option. I see spirituality as a stained glass lamp. All of the beams of light are a different color, but all are getting the light from the same source. Christianity is one of those beams, other faiths are others. But at the root of it all, is the capability to do good. This is why I feel conversion is completely unecessary.

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(Reference)
But you don't have to be christian to do that. Bascially, that guy acted like club security... well, decent club security.

Moral of this story is to just be nice to people. You don't need a chaplain there.

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Why do you keep doding the fact that minstries aren't just for converting people? Granted, it is the ultimate goal of a minstry, but extending a helping hand & a loving heart is a huge part of it.
Remember reading this from the Bible, DP?


Why don't you try that one?

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DeathlyPallor, maybe you don't realize it, but by insisting that it's wrong for us to say other peoples faith is wrong, you are saying that our faith is wrong. We beleive that Jesus is the only way to heaven. Sounds a little hypocritical to me...

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Am I not a nice person for defending other religions and not kowtowing to yours?

I was offering honest criticism and an opposing and dissenting point of view. If that is mean, then I guess I'm a total jerk then.

Am I a mean person don't go around and say that I am going to proselytize?

Am I mean for not calling you an idiot for being the faith you are, hypothetically?

Point stated.



Yes I do... but then again. I'm not a Christian. But that quote does not give you right to judge or convert people. I always saw conversion as passing judgment. Which, in its ultimate sense, is.

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This one gives me right to convert people:


DP, just stop shoving discouragement down my throat. You think I would be annoying, yet you don't realize how annoying you're being. Let me run with this idea. It's not like I'm going to find you in a club, so why should you care?

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And you thought me tactless? Well, I guess the truth hurt you that badly to have you be so crass.




I've read that one. Remember Sun-Tsu's the Art of War... keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

You want a reason? Read everything I've posted. The idea of forcing religion onto people, though your religion permits, does not necessarily make it ultimately right. But only right to christians.

Nobody is going to want to be preached to outside of a church, and presenting only one theological principle is correct. Sure, it may be to you... but not to anyone who isn't a christian. And it isn't your business whether someone is a christian or not.

Fundamentalist opression is why I care. You shouldn't care if someone does or doesn't go to Hell. It's their choice ultimately. But, the building of churches also coincides with that article from Michael. Churches are the places where these things are supposed to be taught.

Outside of church... keep thy religion to thyself.

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Right here, I see glaring hypocrisy. You see, if you were to truly accept and tolerate people's right to follow whatever religion they believe in, then you should accept and tolerate their right to follow those beliefs, which obviously include the belief that they are to go out and preach and minister and witness or whatever you want to call it to as many people as they can or deem necessary. Time and time again throughout this thread, they have said that they would not force their religion by trying to continue preaching after someone has openly expressed disinterest. But you apparently don't want to acknowledge that gracious attitude of theirs.

It'd be like, "Hey kids, wanna hear a story about elves?"
"No, not really...not interested in elves."
"Oh, okay. Well, I'll see you later. Let me know if you need anything."
"Okay, take care."

See? Harmless, isn't it?



But it's NOT potentially hurting other people. They're not chasing after them. Ian's not going to hold a gun to Rummy's head and say, "CONVERT OR GET BLASTED, FOOL!" It's not harmless to have an exchange of ideas and beliefs.

And after all, if you have no problem with people believing in Christianity, why do you have a problem with the potential for people to be converted to it? Yeah, yeah--they may be drunk, down on their luck, in the "wrong" state of mind...but if they have the right and ability to actively seek out Christianity or any other religious/spiritual belief on their own, then they would likewise have the right and ability to actively leave Christianity if they got converted one night and later on decided that it wasn't for them. Or am I missing something here?

One more thing: People shape religion to their morals far more than they shape their morals to their religion. In other words, there are plenty of "Christians" (or so they call themselves) out there who actively preach nothing but hate, prejudice, and bigotry--all of which they support with the Bible. If someone like Ian wants to offer someone a ride home, it's much, MUCH more like that it's because he's just a good person that way--NOT because he's afraid of being sent to Hell if he doesn't. Plenty of Christians wouldn't and don't do these sorts of things, because their morals don't guide them to do as such. So is it Christianity that is the cause for these morals, if so many people follow this one religion and yet have such a wide scope of what is considered moral? Or is it because PEOPLE are different and hold different morals, regardless of what their religion may suggest them to do? I believe that it's the latter.

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The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!

Ok, I've thought this over.

Look... so long as you don't end up as bad as some other ministries have gotten...it should fly.

I've seen these before, and some of them have failed miserably and became solely for the purpose of condemning people. As long as that is not the sole purpose of what you wish to do, you might actually make a difference.

I guess I must've misinterpreted some of what you said by getting to over-protective...Mainly the proselytizing angle. I've had so many of them forcefully try to convert me in the past, and I didn't want to see such a thing persist. Ouvert proselytizing does breed negativity, but I don't think (having read it again) that is what you truly wish to do. But, allowing someone to come to the conclusion about finding Christ or not. You just give them what you have to provide...

But, mulling it over, I figure you don't seem to the type to be that aggresive about it. Probably more prone to sticking to the original purpose of being there for people (which I actually do support) I don't agree with proselytizing, but the good things like helping people out when you can is very thoughtful and considerate.

If you actually stick to your purpose, I think that it could be a good thing. Just, be careful... I've seen some horrid stuff in my day and I wouldn't have warned you if I were such a jerk, now would I? I admit that my sternness makes a lot of things seem off... but to be honest, if you do good for some of these people fine.

Honestly, some people will need someone to talk to. Just, be careful around the clubs... some people don't take kindly to people trying this kind of empathy; Christian or otherwise. It's horribly unsafe, and you're of better use alive and not laid up in the hospital, man!!

Maybe an outreach ministry for at-risk youth would be better. To keep them from getting into drugs and such...

Your original idea, I'm sorry, seemed intrusive and very high risk. But, with this suggestion, you can still make a positive impact on people's lives.

Not being a Christian, I don't like the idea of converting people (something that has never sat well with me), I think you should leave it up to them ultimately. If they truly believe in it, they will follow. Such things should never be forced... But if you help people because of whats in your heart...not just because your religion requires it (if you don't truly believe in what you do, why do it?) then that is what is important.

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I see one problem with this: a club is a place of extreme temptation, with alcohol, skimpily clad people, and a certain atmosphere. Add that to the fact that the Bible states that Christians should not display even an appearance of immorality, and it seems iffy.

I guess I'm lucky! But, if that is your perogative, go for it. I'm not gonna preach to you. Not my place.

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So why is it, DP, that I must listen to your point of view and accept it, that I should hang my faith up when I leave the church, that by talking about my faith is wrong when I believe that I am supposed to tell people about it? If they don't want to hear it then I don't continue on with it and I drop the topic. Meanwhile, you sit there and force your ideas and beliefs down my throat by adamamently telling me that I can't tell anyone about my faith because you believe that it does not have a place outside of the church. If everyone is supposed to be able to choose their own path, how does anyone do that if no one gives them the options?

And has it occurred to you that some people may want to listen, so for the sake of those it is worth it to talk to them, for those that don't want to listen that is their choice. Personally, I'm sick of having my faith seen as a socially unacceptable and unpresentable outside of the walls of the church. Since when has Christianity in the way it was intended harmed anyone? And I'm sure that you will say the Crusades, the Inquisition, etc. Those are not examples of Christianity; those are men screwing with Christianity and what it was intended to be. As I said before in a previous quote, it is about a relationship plain and simple. It's about someone caring for you so much that they were willing to die for you, knowing full well that you might reject Him, but going through the motions anyways. Someone who will love you regardless of your mistakes, because we all make mistakes. I know that I'm messed up so I don't try to pass myself off as better than them. the only difference is that I'm forgiven because I accepted that forgiveness, which is the only thing that I've really done right.

Through Christ's death for us, we all are forgiven and we all need it. I need it just as much as you do because I am not perfect, I don't profess to be and when I tell people about my faith I tell them that, that I am a sinner too, that I have messed up. I am no better than anyone else and God knows it. If telling someone that God loves them and that they don't have to go through life alone is wrong, then I'm guilty as charged. If helping someone I see at a club try to deal with the problem that led them there is wrong then I'm in trouble. Some people do want to listen and if they don't then they don't have to and I'll leave them be.

As for the danger, that is where common sense kicks in. You have a point that going into some bars and talking with people would be unsafe, but I have been to bars and clubs and so far I have yet to find that all bars and clubs are places where someone will beat me up if I look at them the wrong way, but some places would result in that, which is why you use the common sense that God gave you. That being said, the safety issue is a good point.

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Well... the way I'd go about it is if they ask. Your probably wear a cross... and generally they will ask about it if they are that interested.
The fact that it is there should be option enough itself. There is a local homeless shelter run by a church, and they don't actually give sermons to them... but the option is always there since it is affiliated with a church.

The option thing is understandable, but it's only providing one. I wouldn't make conversion the forefront of this idea, because coming out and trying to talk to people about religion will set them off and keep them from accepting your help, spiritual or otherwise.



Presenting this isn't necessarily negative... but if you intend on teaching this to those who are interested, then you should never lead this off when you first meet them. It's common etiquette... religion is a universally touchy subject, and if you come on too strong, you will drive people away. Same goes with politics... you can agree with someone on everything else, but if you disagree with someone when it comes to these things, you can destroy a personal relationship with someone faster than it too for you to approach them, because it is a very overwhelming subject. I know you can speak about it with ease, but it won't always be received with the ease you can present it. I'm not trying to discourage you, I am trying to make it easier for you to start acquaintanceships with people you encounter while starting this ministry.

But, whatever the ministry you start, keep in mind the feelings of those who seek your help. If they are ready to find any form of spirituality, they can come to it on their own. But, whether or not they become Christians or not, know that whatever help you provide will not be forgotten and they will tell people about what you've done for them.

It is just that if make your overall goal proselytizing(which was my main grief), it will become evident to some people, and put them off. But, regardless of religion, the good you can do all that, I would think, that anyone expects.

I'm glad that you want to do something good... I'm all for that... But I think the idea of proselytizing is atrocious, and I don't support or partake in it.

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I agree; it's best to come on about Christ through baby steps and "gentle tugs", which are both 3story methods.

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