Homestar Runner Wiki Forum :: View topic - Vatican rethinking the concept of limbo

An infant, or any person who hasn't had the opportunity to accept Christ, can't be held accountable for their "sins". Maybe they can be held accountable, but then I feel that maybe that was something that Christ atoned for.

That makes the concept of Limbo somewhat moot.

i don't believe in Limbo because it's not part of my religion, and neither is Original Sin, so there's no need for Limbo in the first place -- babies who die probably get reincarnated or something.

that said, i think it's silly for the Church to start changing their doctrine now, after two thousand years of built-up dogma. if they decide that there's no such thing as Limbo, does that mean that Limbo disappears? or is it retroactively eliminated, in metaphysical terms? or did it simply never exist at all, in which case, why did the Church promote the idea in the past? isn't there supposed to be that infallibility thing?

too many contradictions.

Cobalt, I don't think the church is suddenly deciding it doesn't exist, they're simply admitting that their original belief in it was wrong. The infallibility thing only applies to the pope, and only sometimes. Wikipedia knows.

That said, I never really bought the concept of limbo. It doesn't make sense for God to allow innocent babies to go to hell.

[Dunno why you'd wait for me on this, Tor. Anyone who knows me knows I'm not a Catholic.]

well there is always the thought of orrigional sin, which keeps coming up, but i just dont belive it. i do belive in Limbo, however, looking onto theories ive deduced in my head, considering things from the bible and the church, from other books, i belive that Heaven and hell Might be something like the way it is described in the Devine Humor.

As far as baptism of babies, this is what I believe:

" Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them..."

[Dunno why you'd wait for me on this, Tor. Anyone who knows me knows I'm not a Catholic.]

I've never believed in Limbo or original sin. I don't think we should blame 2 people for the entire human race's sins. I agree with SR--your destination is binary, Heaven or Hell. Very little babies don't commit "sin", so why should they be held accountable?

I think Lutherans believe in Purgatory. I'm-a ask my fiance aboot it.

StrongRad wrote:

I think Lutherans believe in Purgatory. I'm-a ask my fiance aboot it.

I'm Lutheran, and no, we don't.

Wull, thanks! :mrgreen:

I'm actually looking at Colorado Christian University as a possible college choice, th0 I don't quite have the leader personality to become a full-on minister. =\

Crud, I was hoping this was about the game.

How low can you go... How low can you go... How low can you go... How low can you go.......

the word will somehow have to spread that the Vatican blew up Limbo (Africa, right?).

Mr.KISS wrote:

the word will somehow have to spread that the Vatican blew up Limbo (Africa, right?).

not africa, more like Jerusalem, well... under it, acording to Dante's inferno, that is if we look at it that way.

Author:	Crystallina [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Vatican rethinking the concept of limbo
http://tinyurl.com/ahtkv Any thoughts?

Author:	InterruptorJones [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Vatican rethinking the concept of limbo
Crystallina wrote: Any thoughts? I think you should make it a proper link so it doesn't stretch my browser.

Author:	Crystallina [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:
Done.

Author:	Stu [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:
My thoughts are going to vary from most users around here I suppose. But... I don't believe in the concept of original sin. It just doesn't make sense to me that God would hold me accountable for the actions of another. Any other. I also believe, that while God is completely just, that "justness" isn't without reason. An infant, or any person who hasn't had the opportunity to accept Christ, can't be held accountable for their "sins". Maybe they can be held accountable, but then I feel that maybe that was something that Christ atoned for. That makes the concept of Limbo somewhat moot.

Author:	StrongRad [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:
Stu wrote: An infant, or any person who hasn't had the opportunity to accept Christ, can't be held accountable for their "sins". Maybe they can be held accountable, but then I feel that maybe that was something that Christ atoned for. That makes the concept of Limbo somewhat moot. In my church, the sins of a child are not held against them until the reach an "age of accountability". Unfortunately, there isn't a precise number put on this age, but it's defined, loosely, as when the child knows "right from wrong". We never dealt with limbo or purgatory. For my church, it's rather binary. You either go to Heaven or Hell. If A, then not B. If not A, then B.

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Author:	Cobalt [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:53 pm ]
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i don't believe in Limbo because it's not part of my religion, and neither is Original Sin, so there's no need for Limbo in the first place -- babies who die probably get reincarnated or something. that said, i think it's silly for the Church to start changing their doctrine now, after two thousand years of built-up dogma. if they decide that there's no such thing as Limbo, does that mean that Limbo disappears? or is it retroactively eliminated, in metaphysical terms? or did it simply never exist at all, in which case, why did the Church promote the idea in the past? isn't there supposed to be that infallibility thing? too many contradictions.

Author:	StrongCanada [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:
Since I'm not Catholic, I don't believe in limbo, but to help explain, I've heard Original Sin described as the curse that Adam and Eve passed down to us based on their first betrayal of God. Their descendants (ie, us) are cursed upon birth because of their actions - this is why many Christian religions practice Baptism at birth. From personal experience, I know that Lutherans use Confirmation (essentially, a process teens go through to accept their baptism and take responsibility for their religious life) to allow for the "Age of Accountability" thing StrongRad was talking about. If you want my real opinion on Limbo, I personally don't believe in it. Even with Original Sin, I can't see God sending innocent babies (born or unborn) anywhere but heaven. I'ma wait to see what Jitka and other Catholics have to say.

Author:	StrongRad [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:
Cobalt wrote: i don't believe in Limbo because it's not part of my religion, and neither is Original Sin, so there's no need for Limbo in the first place -- babies who die probably get reincarnated or something. that said, i think it's silly for the Church to start changing their doctrine now, after two thousand years of built-up dogma. if they decide that there's no such thing as Limbo, does that mean that Limbo disappears? or is it retroactively eliminated, in metaphysical terms? or did it simply never exist at all, in which case, why did the Church promote the idea in the past? isn't there supposed to be that infallibility thing? too many contradictions. The retroactively eliminated thing interests me. If that is the case, then what happens to the people that are already there? In either case, it's hardly the first time the Church has changed positions on something and, somehow, I kinda doubt this will be the last.

Author:	Jitka [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:10 pm ]
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Cobalt, I don't think the church is suddenly deciding it doesn't exist, they're simply admitting that their original belief in it was wrong. The infallibility thing only applies to the pope, and only sometimes. Wikipedia knows. That said, I never really bought the concept of limbo. It doesn't make sense for God to allow innocent babies to go to hell.

Author:	Prof. Tor Coolguy [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:
JohnTheTinyCowboy wrote: Cobalt, I don't think the church is suddenly deciding it doesn't exist, they're simply admitting that their original belief in it was wrong. The infallibility thing only applies to the pope, and only sometimes. Wikipedia knows. That said, I never really bought the concept of limbo. It doesn't make sense for God to allow innocent babies to go to hell. It seems as if the God that so many look up to as "The Forgiver" can't let go of a gruge against some curious humans. I'm looking foward to Ian's take on the subject.

Author:	IantheGecko [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:
[Dunno why you'd wait for me on this, Tor. Anyone who knows me knows I'm not a Catholic.] I've never believed in Limbo or original sin. I don't think we should blame 2 people for the entire human race's sins. I agree with SR--your destination is binary, Heaven or Hell. Very little babies don't commit "sin", so why should they be held accountable?

Author:	Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:
well there is always the thought of orrigional sin, which keeps coming up, but i just dont belive it. i do belive in Limbo, however, looking onto theories ive deduced in my head, considering things from the bible and the church, from other books, i belive that Heaven and hell Might be something like the way it is described in the Devine Humor.

Author:	StrongRad [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:
IantheGecko wrote: [Dunno why you'd wait for me on this, Tor. Anyone who knows me knows I'm not a Catholic.] I was wonderin about that, too.. We need a Catholic.. Or Didymus. He's Lutheran. That's like Catholic Lite I think Lutherans believe in Purgatory. I'm-a ask my fiance aboot it.

Author:	Crystallina [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:
Isn't Episcopalian closer to Catholic Lite? I never really believed in the concept of limbo, being Protestant, so I don't feel as strongly as some may. Interesting to see how this turns out. As I understood it, limbo was on its way out for quite some time now.

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Author:	seamusz [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote: well there is always the thought of orrigional sin, which keeps coming up, but i just dont belive it. i do belive in Limbo, however, looking onto theories ive deduced in my head, considering things from the bible and the church, from other books, i belive that Heaven and hell Might be something like the way it is described in the Devine Humor. uuuuhhh, or maybe the Divine Comedy? As far as baptism of babies, this is what I believe: " Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them..."

Author:	StrongRad [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:
seamusz wrote: As far as baptism of babies, this is what I believe: " Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them..." Pretty much wraps that up in a neat little box, complete with ribbon, don't it? The only issue is what is "little"? As I've heard it, "little" is when a child doesn't know right from wrong.. Even that, contains some amount of ambiguity, though.

Author:	Exhibit A [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:17 am ]
Post subject:
I've always thought the baptism of babies was pointless. Even if it was necesarry, (which I don't beleive it is), how can it mean anything if they aren't doing it of their own will?

Author:	Douglas [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:23 am ]
Post subject:
I'm not a Catholic, so I don't believe in limbo. I do, however, think it is a quite enjoyable party game! But, yeah, I believe like SR and Ian; either Heaven, or Hell. I don't think babies or mentally handicapped people who can't help their actions will be held accountable for their sin.

Author:	Prof. Tor Coolguy [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:24 am ]
Post subject:
IantheGecko wrote: [Dunno why you'd wait for me on this, Tor. Anyone who knows me knows I'm not a Catholic.] I've never believed in Limbo or original sin. I don't think we should blame 2 people for the entire human race's sins. I agree with SR--your destination is binary, Heaven or Hell. Very little babies don't commit "sin", so why should they be held accountable? I was wondering on a theology level, I've noticed you've goten into religion lately (I saw your "glow ministries" idea).

Author:	IantheGecko [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:33 am ]
Post subject:
Wull, thanks! I'm actually looking at Colorado Christian University as a possible college choice, th0 I don't quite have the leader personality to become a full-on minister. =\

Author:	cakeman [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:15 am ]
Post subject:
Look, in the famous case Jesus vs. the Pharisess, and even in parts of the olde testament, knowledge is a part of sin. you can't be accountable for doing wrong if you can't comprehend it. For this reason, tribal nations and babies and young children who haven't been witnessed to, or have and have not understood, are not sent to Hell. In fact, Mormons embrace this idea (though I am not Mormon). As for Limbo, I'm pretty apathetic.

Author:	StrongCanada [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:09 am ]
Post subject:
StrongRad wrote: I think Lutherans believe in Purgatory. I'm-a ask my fiance aboot it. I'm Lutheran, and no, we don't.

Author:	StrongRad [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:12 am ]
Post subject:
StrongCanada wrote: StrongRad wrote: I think Lutherans believe in Purgatory. I'm-a ask my fiance aboot it. I'm Lutheran, and no, we don't. That's what she said (and, no, that's not a cheesy joke.. prolly the first time anyone has ever said "that's what she said" and not meant it as one) For those of you who DO believe in Purgatory, would mentally handicapped also go there?

Author:	Douglas [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:26 am ]
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IantheGecko wrote: Wull, thanks! I'm actually looking at Colorado Christian University as a possible college choice, th0 I don't quite have the leader personality to become a full-on minister. =\ Ooh! Or go to Capenrae in San Antonio! That's where I'm going! We can hang out! Single-post Toastpaint.

Author:	Einoo T. Spork [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:30 am ]
Post subject:
Crud, I was hoping this was about the game. How low can you go... How low can you go... How low can you go... How low can you go.......

Author:	Beyond the Grave [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:40 am ]
Post subject:
Einoo T. Spork wrote: Crud, I was hoping this was about the game. How low can you go... How low can you go... How low can you go... How low can you go....... Thank you Einoo T. Spam. I am a Catholic, but I personally don't believe in Limbo. I am a believer in Original Sin. I believe that when an unbaptized goes straight to heaven. I believe that God forgoes Original Sin, because the child never got a chance to purge it.

Author:	Mr.KISS [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:36 am ]
Post subject:
I always thought limbo was just something some dude came up with so people would pay for more Baptisms. But, what do I know? As for changing the rules of different realms of existence just so more people would become christians (if I screwed that up I'm just going by what I heasrd on the story on The Colbert Report last night) I think it would have been easier just to promote birth control. Why? Because even if they do do this, the word will somehow have to spread that the Vatican blew up Limbo (Africa, right?). The energy they take could just be used to promote Birth control.

Author:	Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:21 am ]
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Mr.KISS wrote: the word will somehow have to spread that the Vatican blew up Limbo (Africa, right?). not africa, more like Jerusalem, well... under it, acording to Dante's inferno, that is if we look at it that way.