Illegal Immigrants

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:41 am

AbuGrape45 wrote:

Rusty wrote:

Yes, because people who come here looking for a living, when they couldn't find one anywhere else, should be treated just like murderers and thieves.

I'm not saying that. There are different dimensions of crime with different levels of severity. The dimension that immigrating illegally is at is in the area that those who part-take in it don't deserve fair or equal treatment.

In fact, I'd say that if someone employs them or attempts to give them a fair court case after they've done something wrong, they themselves deserve jail-time for playing accessory to a crime. That's how it should be.

So then a lawyer who defends someone convicted of murder should be put in jail as an accessory to the murder?

Congratulations, You make no sense!

AbuGrape45 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:45 am

*Sigh* No. You continue to misunderstand.

Anyone who sets up a court date for them with the intent of "just being fair", while all the while they know of their illegal status deserves jail-time, because they're aware that they're criminals.

Also, I can see your views on this are faaan-tastic.

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:

you freakin racist! you cant just say "Hey, we dont want no Mexicans in our Country, were americans!" and build a freakin Great Wall to keep them out, you gotta remember that over half of the countries population is foreign, and every other person of Natural Birth as you would call it, is off living in other countries. you make me sick, i can understand about keeping the drug dealers out, but COME ON! your one of those guys who would talk to mexican working at a resturaunt and say "Hey, El'Worker, Get-O Me-O A elNew'O Fork'O", you make me sick, racist.

Oh, yeah. Keep on eye on COLA. He's the next Tucker.

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:49 am

AbuGrape45 wrote:

Also, I can see your views on this are faaan-tastic.

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:

you freakin racist! you cant just say "Hey, we dont want no Mexicans in our Country, were americans!" and build a freakin Great Wall to keep them out, you gotta remember that over half of the countries population is foreign, and every other person of Natural Birth as you would call it, is off living in other countries. you make me sick, i can understand about keeping the drug dealers out, but COME ON! your one of those guys who would talk to mexican working at a resturaunt and say "Hey, El'Worker, Get-O Me-O A elNew'O Fork'O", you make me sick, racist.

Oh, yeah. Keep on eye on COLA. He's the next Tucker.

That was from like 2006. When I was like, your age.

Quote:

Anyone who sets up a court date for them with the intent of "just being fair", while all the while they know of their illegal status deserves jail-time, because they're aware that they're criminals.

Everyone in the US has the right to a fair trial, even people here illegally.

AbuGrape45 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:50 am

I understand the point you're trying to make, but only citizens of the U.S deserve anything from us. Illegal aliens are not citizens of the United States.

StrongRad · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:50 am

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:

Everyone in the US has the right to a fair trial, even people here illegally.

Do they?
Is that guaranteed by the constitution?

I'm not saying they shouldn't, I just want to know where this "right" comes from.

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:51 am

AbuGrape45 wrote:

I understand the point you're trying to make, but only citizens of the U.S deserve anything from the U.S. Illegal aliens are not citizens of the U.S.

Terrorists got a fair trial, why shouldn't illegals?

AbuGrape45 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:53 am

That is a good point, but it all depends what kind of terrorist we're talking about here. Are these Iraqis? Americans? Not all terrorists are from the Middle East. That could have something to do with it. Not to mention that the UN could possibly have involvement in these court cases.

gunluva · **Joined:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:41 pm **Posts:** 815

Seriously? Dude, they're TERRORISTS. What's it matter where they're from?

AbuGrape45 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:57 am

Can we prove their terrorists by looking at them or simply hearing about what they've done? Think about it, the United Nations probably have a lot of control in those court cases, which validates them. Illegal immigrants don't deserve court cases from American citizens, making any case they're given invalid. And I doubt that a simple immigrant could do anything that would need to be referred to the UN.

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:02 am

AbuGrape45 wrote:

That is a good point, but it all depends what kind of terrorist we're talking about here. Are these Iraqis? Americans? Not all terrorists are from the Middle East. That could have something to do with it. Not to mention that the UN could possibly have involvement in these court cases.

Quote:

Can we prove their terrorists by looking at them or simply hearing about what they've done? Think about it, the United Nations probably have a lot of control in those court cases, which validates them. Illegal immigrants don't deserve court cases from American citizens, making any case they're given invalid. And I doubt that a simple immigrant could do anything that would need to be referred to the UN.

You are an idiot. Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the man behind the 9/11 plot, is getting a fair trial. He confessed, he's getting his trial, and it will be fair. So if the terrorist who planned the largest attack on US soil get a fair trial, why shouldn't an illegal immigrant get one?

StrongRad · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:02 am

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:

AbuGrape45 wrote:

I understand the point you're trying to make, but only citizens of the U.S deserve anything from the U.S. Illegal aliens are not citizens of the U.S.

Terrorists got a fair trial, why shouldn't illegals?

The only reason I can give for a discrepancy (and I'm TOTALLY playing Devil's Advocate here) would be that the terrorists really didn't have a choice to be here (we kinda shipped them to Gitmo whereas illegals willingly came to America (and I realize this fails because terrorists are willing participants in their activities).

Is there anywhere in the constitution that actually guarantees everyone in America a fair trial? Once again, not saying people shouldn't get a fair trial, just trying to see if it's actually said somewhere.

AbuGrape45 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:04 am

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:

AbuGrape45 wrote:

That is a good point, but it all depends what kind of terrorist we're talking about here. Are these Iraqis? Americans? Not all terrorists are from the Middle East. That could have something to do with it. Not to mention that the UN could possibly have involvement in these court cases.

Quote:

Can we prove their terrorists by looking at them or simply hearing about what they've done? Think about it, the United Nations probably have a lot of control in those court cases, which validates them. Illegal immigrants don't deserve court cases from American citizens, making any case they're given invalid. And I doubt that a simple immigrant could do anything that would need to be referred to the UN.

You are an idiot. Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the man behind the 9/11 plot, is getting a fair trial. He confessed, he's getting his trial, and it will be fair. So if the terrorist who planned the largest attack on US soil get a fair trial, why shouldn't an illegal immigrant get one?

I pretty much agree with what StrongRad said. I couldn't give my opinion straight to you, though. You were kind of vague about the whole thing.

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:08 am

StrongRad wrote:

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:

AbuGrape45 wrote:

I understand the point you're trying to make, but only citizens of the U.S deserve anything from the U.S. Illegal aliens are not citizens of the U.S.

Terrorists got a fair trial, why shouldn't illegals?

The only reason I can give for a discrepancy (and I'm TOTALLY playing Devil's Advocate here) would be that the terrorists really didn't have a choice to be here (we kinda shipped them to Gitmo whereas illegals willingly came to America (and I realize this fails because terrorists are willing participants in their activities).

Is there anywhere in the constitution that actually guarantees everyone in America a fair trial? Once again, not saying people shouldn't get a fair trial, just trying to see if it's actually said somewhere.

Its Article ten, Sixth amendment, Article six.

At Abu:

AbuGrape45 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:10 am

Oh, stop, COLA. Provide for me a solid argument as to why you think illegal immigrants deserve the support of us, and your right to be facepalm will be validated. Until then, just shut the Funk up.

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:18 am

AbuGrape45 wrote:

Oh, stop, COLA. Provide for me a solid argument as to why you think illegal immigrants deserve the support of us, and your right to be facepalm will be validated. Until then, just shut the freaking eh up.

Illegal immigrants have done nothing wrong other than set foot into this country without having to stand in a line for six weeks, then wait another three months to be approved, and eventually getting denied for no apparent reason. They come here for jobs so they can provide a better life for their children. When they lived in Mexico, they werent Rich Bigshots who thought that coming to America would make them richer, they were poor people who lost their homes, had no money, and could not provide for their children. They could have either ran off to start a new life elsewhere and not cared for their family, or they could have their pride and risk everything for their families by crossing teh border illegally.

I never said they deserve our support, and they don't get government support like you claim, and they never will because they are ILLEGAL. They never got support, and I was never arguing that we should support them.

EDIT: Infact, the only people who get monetary support from the government are free loaders on Welfare.

AbuGrape45 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:31 am

That may be true. But I don't think they need support from us.

Your explanation was a lengthened version of the "they're here in search of a better life" speech. Which does not validate their illegal coming to America. This country has laws. If they think they're citizens, they'd follow our laws. But they're not doing that, and they're aware of it. That makes it a negative issue regardless of their beginnings. They're outlaws and they're self-aware. Half of them don't try to learn English, which shows that they must not be too interested in getting jobs.

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:37 am

AbuGrape45 wrote:

That may be true. But I don't think they need support from us.

Your explanation was a lengthened version of the "they're here in search of a better life" speech. Which does not validate their illegal coming to America. This country has laws. If they think they're citizens, they'd follow our laws. But they're not doing that, and they're aware of it. That makes it a negative issue regardless of their beginnings. They're outlaws and they're self-aware. Half of them don't try to learn English, which shows that they must not be too interested in getting jobs.

So then if they arent interested in getting jobs, then why are people complaining that illegals are taking their jobs? And also, you saying that since they are aware of their crime, that they don't deserve a trial, is BS. A murderer is aware of his crimes, yet he still gets a fair trial.

Second, the fact that they don't try to learn English is something that can be fixed when they pass that bill that makes any current illegal in the US to come forward to gain citizenship with only a slight monetary penalty imposed on them. That, and I think it says somewhere in there that they would also have six months or so to learn English, but I may just be paraphrasing about that...

AbuGrape45 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:42 am

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:

AbuGrape45 wrote:

That may be true. But I don't think they need support from us.

Your explanation was a lengthened version of the "they're here in search of a better life" speech. Which does not validate their illegal coming to America. This country has laws. If they think they're citizens, they'd follow our laws. But they're not doing that, and they're aware of it. That makes it a negative issue regardless of their beginnings. They're outlaws and they're self-aware. Half of them don't try to learn English, which shows that they must not be too interested in getting jobs.

So then if they arent interested in getting jobs, then why are people complaining that illegals are taking their jobs? And also, you saying that since they are aware of their crime, that they don't deserve a trial, is BS. A murderer is aware of his crimes, yet he still gets a fair trial.

That's because he is a United States citizen, thus he gets our justice system's fairness. And I'm not saying immigrants are worse people than murderers, but they are less deserving of certain things that can be given to them by this country.

Cola wrote:

So then if they arent interested in getting jobs, then why are people complaining that illegals are taking their jobs?

Ask the people that whine about that all the time. I'm not one of them. I'm too open-minded.

Rusty · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:43 am

AbuGrape45 wrote:

but only citizens of the U.S deserve anything from us.

So, let's just stop exporting goods and trying to support any place in desprate need of attention (IE Sudan/Darfur)

AbuGrape45 wrote:

I'm too open-minded.

This is extremely funny after the argument you've presented. "LAW SAYS SO, THAT'S IT. NO QUESTIONS ASKED, IT'S BAD TO COME HERE 'ILLEGALLY'"

AbuGrape45 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:44 am

You obviously misunderstood what I said. That or you put it out of context.

Rusty · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:46 am

AbuGrape45 wrote:

You obviously misunderstood what I said. That or you put it out of context.

Um. No. You said that if someone is not a citizen of the US, they don't deserve anything from us.

AbuGrape45 wrote:

I'm too open-minded.

This is extremely funny after the argument you've presented. "LAW SAYS SO, THAT'S IT. NO QUESTIONS ASKED, IT'S BAD TO COME HERE 'ILLEGALLY'"

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:46 am

AbuGrape45 wrote:

That's because he is a United States citizen, thus he gets our justice system's fairness. And I'm not saying immigrants are worse people than murderers, but they are less deserving of certain things that can be given to them by this country.

So then a Terrorist that lived in Afganistan, who plotted 9/11 and had it carried out, who was caught and brought to the US, who is NOT a US citizen, is more deserving of the United States' Justice System's fairness than someone who's crime is just being here illegally?

Makes perfect sense.

AbuGrape45 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:51 am

A Giant Ignoramus Who Hasn't Paid Attention wrote:

This is extremely funny after the argument you've presented. "LAW SAYS SO, THAT'S IT. NO QUESTIONS ASKED, IT'S BAD TO COME HERE 'ILLEGALLY'"

Read the whole thread.

Cola wrote:

So then a Terrorist that lived in Afganistan, who plotted 9/11 and had it carried out, who was caught and brought to the US, who is NOT a US citizen, is more deserving of the United States' Justice System's fairness than someone who's crime is just being here illegally?

Makes perfect sense.

Wrong. I'm not saying that a terrorist has the right to a fair trial, he doesn't. But that wasn't my decision. If it was my decision, then that terrorist would be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But it wasn't.

Illegal immigrants don't deserve jail-time, either. Just deportation, especially if they've committed a crime.

StrongRad · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:52 am

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:

AbuGrape45 wrote:

That's because he is a United States citizen, thus he gets our justice system's fairness. And I'm not saying immigrants are worse people than murderers, but they are less deserving of certain things that can be given to them by this country.

So then a Terrorist that lived in Afganistan, who plotted 9/11 and had it carried out, who was caught and brought to the US, who is NOT a US citizen, is more deserving of the United States' Justice System's fairness than someone who's crime is just being here illegally?

Makes perfect sense.

Nope.
A terrorist living in Afghanistan, who plotted and carried out 9/11 is only deserving of a tall drop with a short rope around his neck.
An illegal alien deserves an air-conditioned bus ride back to the border and maybe a bottle of water and a sandwich.

AbuGrape45 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:53 am

My point exactly.

Acekirby · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:54 am

Except he IS getting a fair trial and no amount of complaining is going to change that fact.

So if he gets one, why shouldn't an illegal immigrant?

AbuGrape45 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:56 am

I don't know. It doesn't matter. What's done is done, what's out of my hands is out of my hands. I don't think a terrorist deserves a fair trial, nor does an illegal immigrant. But I'm not the government, so my opinion doesn't matter.

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:58 am

If your opinion doesn't matter, then why are you still posting here?

AbuGrape45 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:59 am

You're putting my words out of context again.

Rusty · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:59 am

Um. I did read the whole thread, dude. I'm saying that the reason you're presenting, the reason for them to be "illegal", is that it is the law. Nothing else. But because it is the law, it should not be questioned.

Stop flip flopping. It's extremely annoying and kills your argument. Not that it was ever alive.

AbuGrape45 wrote:

I don't know. It doesn't matter. What's done is done, what's out of my hands is out of my hands. I don't think a terrorist deserves a fair trial, nor does an illegal immigrant. But I'm not the government, so my opinion doesn't matter.

Lol, exactly. THE GOVERNMENT SAYS SO, SO JUST KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT AND DON'T SAY ANYTHING!!!

Everyone has the right to a fair trial. It's ridiculous to just throw someone in prison, no matter how incriminating and how much evidence there is.

AbuGrape45 wrote:

You're putting my words out of context again.

You annoy me.

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