Didymus wrote:
The point is that it's supposed to get people Thinking.
Right, but it's used all too often as an argument, or a justification for following a religion.
thefreakyblueman wrote:
Frankly, I just don't believe that a just God would condemn people to a "hell" simply because they are confused.
While I wholeheartedly agree with your point, I don't like the look of this "confused" label. Who's to say I'm confused, just because I don't follow your religion? What happened to your "everything is equal" stance?
Didymus wrote:
It's not for being confused that he condemns people. That's a mistake often made from the somewhat confusing way evangelicals often pose the Gospel as a matter of choice. The condemnation comes by way of being fallen creatures and breaking the law.
Law? What law have I, Upsilon, broken? What is it that makes you, Didymus, a fallen creature?
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Think about it like this. You're on a sinking ship, and someone directs you to the life boats, even offers to help you reach them. It would be foolish not to accept their aid. The ship is already sinking, there's no helping that. But if you refuse to go to the life boats, then you end up sinking with the ship.
This may hold up under the assumption that Christianity is true. From a secular perspective, it's completely different. You're on a ship and there are plenty of people coming up to you, telling you about how the ship's going to sink, and the only way you can be saved from drowning is by building yourself a lifeboat from the resources they provide.
However, it is clear that the ship is in no danger of sinking and even if you wanted to build a lifeboat just in case, it would take up the entire duration of the cruise. And, just to make it more interesting, there are other groups claiming that octopuses will attack the ship and the only way to be saved is to build octopus defense units, or that terrorists will attack and only save those who know pi to one thousand decimal places, so the only way to be saved is to spend all your time learning and reciting pi.
You get the idea. This is just another incarnation of Jones' Allegory of the Horses.
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Did you even read my post, Plaster-dude? If God says, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except by me," who are you to tell him he's wrong?
But the fact is, God never said that to me. I read it in a book once and a lot of people are telling me that he said that, but I have no evidence that he did. Or even that he exists. I'm not telling him he's wrong, because he's not real.
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Who says? Just because other religions exist does not make any of them valid.
A Jew, a Muslim, a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Sikh, could just as easily tell me this. It wouldn't help their case.
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Now does this mean that everyone who follows a different religion will be condemned? Well, on one hand, I wish I could say no. However, as a minister of his word, I must remain faithful to his own statement, "No one comes to the Father except by me." While I wish that every religion was redemptive, it would be inconsistent of me to ignore his own words.
Is this proper logic? You're saying "[the Christian] God exists, and he said this, so it must be true, whether or not it makes sense", as opposed to "God said this, and it doesn't make sense, therefore it's not true, therefore God doesn't exist". The latter is my own path of logic - what justification do you have for taking the former?
woddfellow2 wrote:
About heaven/****:
Just so you know, there's no need to censor Hell, as long as you're talking about the religious concept as opposed to the swearword.
Didymus wrote:
Why do you say it is so ridiculous? Have you any proof that He doesn't exist?
Well, there is this little tale I like to call the
Passion of the Chris – you might like to give it a read.
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