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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:44 am 
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StrongRad wrote:
then again, I'm white, so I'm not allowed to have an opinion regarding that word, or so it would seem.


Everybody's allowed to have an opinion on it, but your opinion might not mean anything to some people... ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:50 pm 
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furrykef wrote:
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Wow. You must live under a rock. Generally, those white rapping kids call each other crackas all the time.


Yes... white rapping kids. As opposed to just white people.


Yes... black rapping kids. As opposed to just black people.
I know lots of black people who have never said that word. It's the same with white people.
White people in gangs say "cracka" all the time, and it's the same with blacks. It's just neo-style words, that people like saying to think they're cool. Seriously.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:08 am 
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I just thought of something: do we whites have the right to call ourselves "honks"? Just kidding. ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:15 am 
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ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
What is the context then? If it's funny, it can't be insulting...? grrrr why does there always have to be a context. People should just say what they actually mean.


one tiny problem here. if you dont have context you never say anything. think about it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:02 pm 
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Amorican wrote:
From what I've read, seen, and from black people I've spoken to, it's really about taking the sting out of the word. If black people call each other "the N word," it's meaning becomes dulled within the community. It becomes a term of endearment. So if you're a black kid, and some racist comes around and starts calling you that, it just doesn't hurt as much as it otherwise would.

Black people have essentially taken this stance with the word: We've taken the word away from you racist white people, for ourselves, so you can't use it to hurt us anymore.


Absolutely correct in my opinion. I go to a high school with a 12% white population, with about a 60% black population, and in my experience, the word is used not as an insult, but as a friendly comment. Frankly, the real issue here isn't whether or not it's unfair that white people cannot use the word, but whether or not white people should be using it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:20 pm 
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thefreakyblueman wrote:
Amorican wrote:
From what I've read, seen, and from black people I've spoken to, it's really about taking the sting out of the word. If black people call each other "the N word," it's meaning becomes dulled within the community. It becomes a term of endearment. So if you're a black kid, and some racist comes around and starts calling you that, it just doesn't hurt as much as it otherwise would.

Black people have essentially taken this stance with the word: We've taken the word away from you racist white people, for ourselves, so you can't use it to hurt us anymore.


Absolutely correct in my opinion. I go to a high school with a 12% white population, with about a 60% black population, and in my experience, the word is used not as an insult, but as a friendly comment. Frankly, the real issue here isn't whether or not it's unfair that white people cannot use the word, but whether or not white people should be using it.

Of course, they should use it. People who say that shouldn't use that word are the same people that whine about inequality.
Seems a bit hypocritical to say "all people are equal" then say "only people of certain races can say certain words".

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:47 pm 
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StrongRad wrote:
Of course, they should use it. People who say that shouldn't use that word are the same people that whine about inequality.
Seems a bit hypocritical to say "all people are equal" then say "only people of certain races can say certain words".


I'd prefer that nobody use it rather than everybody. Either that or have the entire racial meaning taken out of the term, which would be impossible.

One point I thought of that's often neglected: it'd often be inappropriate for a white person to use it even if it weren't offensive. It's one of those terms that shows inclusion/exclusion in a group, and a white person talking like a black person isn't going to be received well unless they have thoroughly shown themselves as belonging to "the group". This sort of thing is not specific to race. If a non-geek suddenly got ahold of the Jargon File and suddenly started spewing jargon terms to his geek friends, he'd get laughed off. Similarly, I think even if white people wouldn't get beat up over the N-word, they'd still get laughed at. Why bother?

- Kef


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:15 am 
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furrykef wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
Of course, they should use it. People who say that shouldn't use that word are the same people that whine about inequality.
Seems a bit hypocritical to say "all people are equal" then say "only people of certain races can say certain words".


I'd prefer that nobody use it rather than everybody. Either that or have the entire racial meaning taken out of the term, which would be impossible.

One point I thought of that's often neglected: it'd often be inappropriate for a white person to use it even if it weren't offensive. It's one of those terms that shows inclusion/exclusion in a group, and a white person talking like a black person isn't going to be received well unless they have thoroughly shown themselves as belonging to "the group". This sort of thing is not specific to race. If a non-geek suddenly got ahold of the Jargon File and suddenly started spewing jargon terms to his geek friends, he'd get laughed off. Similarly, I think even if white people wouldn't get beat up over the N-word, they'd still get laughed at. Why bother?

- Kef

I won't argue that the word should just go away. Nor will I argue that white people using it as a term of endearment would look kind of awkward.
All I was saying is that this notion of a word that only some people can say is incredibly racist and counter to the equality that some claim they want.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:21 am 
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The N-word is a statement of racism, as is the C-word. I hate it when comedy has to resort to using those vulgarities (although it can be hilarious, i.e. Everybody Hates Chris). Nobody should say it.

Edit: 400'th POST'D!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:01 pm 
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Rusty wrote:
I hate it when comedy has to resort to using those vulgarities (although it can be hilarious, i.e. Everybody Hates Chris). Nobody should say it.


I don't like it when people speak of comedians and such "resorting" to this or that, as if they had no other choice. For instance, after an airing of Robin Williams stand-up on HBO, somebody opined that Robin Williams didn't have to "resort" to the dirty humor he used (since Robin Williams is usually kid-friendly in the movies). Well, I know that, they know that, HBO knows that, and Robin Williams knows that. He's Robin freakin' Williams; his name alone would sell. He didn't resort to dirty comedy; he chose dirty comedy. I don't get why people see a style of comedy that happens to be popular but disagreeable to some people has to be something you "resort" to. Some people just think dirty humor is funnier. (Using the N-word in a humorous context pretty much fits in the same category.)

I'm also puzzled by your remark that "it can be hilarious" but "nobody should say it". I don't think anything that's hilarious can be too wrong, even if it's offensive to some (so long as it has a proper context).

- Kef


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:30 pm 
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csours wrote:
ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
What is the context then? If it's funny, it can't be insulting...? grrrr why does there always have to be a context. People should just say what they actually mean.


one tiny problem here. if you dont have context you never say anything. think about it.
I'm saying why does the context always have to be different. Why do people have to say really insulting things and then say "sure, it sounded bad, but I meant to call you a friend!" I dunno if that applies to this topic.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:25 pm 
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furrykef wrote:
Rusty wrote:
I hate it when comedy has to resort to using those vulgarities (although it can be hilarious, i.e. Everybody Hates Chris). Nobody should say it.


I don't like it when people speak of comedians and such "resorting" to this or that, as if they had no other choice. For instance, after an airing of Robin Williams stand-up on HBO, somebody opined that Robin Williams didn't have to "resort" to the dirty humor he used (since Robin Williams is usually kid-friendly in the movies). Well, I know that, they know that, HBO knows that, and Robin Williams knows that. He's Robin freakin' Williams; his name alone would sell. He didn't resort to dirty comedy; he chose dirty comedy. I don't get why people see a style of comedy that happens to be popular but disagreeable to some people has to be something you "resort" to. Some people just think dirty humor is funnier. (Using the N-word in a humorous context pretty much fits in the same category.)

I'm also puzzled by your remark that "it can be hilarious" but "nobody should say it". I don't think anything that's hilarious can be too wrong, even if it's offensive to some (so long as it has a proper context).

- Kef

I didn't say dirty humor in general; I just said those two words (although it didn't come off clearly).

It did have a good context, seeing at the guy getting the butt of the joke is a bully that torments Chris, and got what was coming to him. But comedians that use it ruthlessly because they can't make other people laugh without using those two horrible words irk me. Those who use it once, maybe twice, and use it in the proper context, are okay with me.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:28 pm 
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Rusty wrote:
I didn't say dirty humor in general; I just said those two words (although it didn't come off clearly).


I know, but my little rant was a bit more general in scope.

- Kef


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:33 am 
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furrykef wrote:
Rusty wrote:
I didn't say dirty humor in general; I just said those two words (although it didn't come off clearly).


I know, but my little rant was a bit more general in scope.

- Kef
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:11 am 
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furrykef wrote:
I don't like it when people speak of comedians and such "resorting" to this or that, as if they had no other choice. For instance, after an airing of Robin Williams stand-up on HBO, somebody opined that Robin Williams didn't have to "resort" to the dirty humor he used (since Robin Williams is usually kid-friendly in the movies). Well, I know that, they know that, HBO knows that, and Robin Williams knows that. He's Robin freakin' Williams; his name alone would sell. He didn't resort to dirty comedy; he chose dirty comedy. I don't get why people see a style of comedy that happens to be popular but disagreeable to some people has to be something you "resort" to. Some people just think dirty humor is funnier. (Using the N-word in a humorous context pretty much fits in the same category.)

I'm also puzzled by your remark that "it can be hilarious" but "nobody should say it". I don't think anything that's hilarious can be too wrong, even if it's offensive to some (so long as it has a proper context).

- Kef


Here's the deal with Robin Williams . . . He's a dirty comic who is forced to do family humor to appeal to mass audiences in movies and television. In real life, and in his standup, Robin Williams is one dirty mofo. Same goes for Bob Saget. I find this especially amusing in the case of Bob Saget considering how cleaned up his image was on the ABC network between Full House and America's Funniest Home Videos . . .

Back to the topic . . .There are just some words some people can use and others can't. Get over it.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:50 pm 
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Words change meaning over time. Gay is a good example. "Nigger" will become acceptable in time.

bless.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:31 pm 
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godonlyknows wrote:
Words change meaning over time. Gay is a good example. "Nigger" will become acceptable in time.

bless.
"Gay" and "Bundle of sticks" shouldn't be acceptable either.

What sickens me is that people sometimes see the words as "good", and the person who spouts them off every two minutes is idolized, and apparently, "cool", and the people who try to control themselves are not.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:37 pm 
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I don't really mind using the word "gay," since it's pretty general and only offensive if someone tries real hard to make it offensive. Moreover, it takes a lot less time to say "I am gay," than if I were to say, "I am a homosexual."

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:23 am 
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Rusty wrote:
godonlyknows wrote:
Words change meaning over time. Gay is a good example. "Nigger" will become acceptable in time.

bless.
"Gay" and "Bundle of sticks" shouldn't be acceptable either.

What sickens me is that people sometimes see the words as "good", and the person who spouts them off every two minutes is idolized, and apparently, "cool", and the people who try to control themselves are not.


Gay IS an acceptable word. Bundle of sticks is just a derogatroy term that has mostly been annexed of it's homosexual origins.


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