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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:56 pm 
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Your logic is flawed, Funkstar. The reason illegal drugs are outlawed is because they are Particularly dangerous. There are certain laws in place to keep people from harming themselves and others, and frankly, I think they are needed.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:47 pm 
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Ju Ju Master wrote:
Karmaism wrote:
ramrod wrote:
Karmaism wrote:
There is no comparison-Cigarrettes are worse than weed.Weed is fairly harmless drug.
You sir, are incorrect. I just did a speech today about how marijuana is not at all a harmless drug. I suggest you read this before you make statements like that. Trust me, from first hand experience, marijuana is far from harmless.

I think opinions on this vary but i think people should still have the choice for themselves.


As PMG said, it's not an opinion, there's factual evidence to support whichever side is true (And I believe the "winning side" is that marijuana is a harmful drug) Legalizing it publicly would not be a good idea seeing the condition of so many drug-addicts. It would cause a whole load of problems, depression, theft, etc. (all moreso than before) and we all know we don't need more of those.

But Karmaism, I'm confused, you seem to eb switching back and forth from the sides. Are you for or against legalization of marijauna? (Both medically and publicly)


I talked to my father who is a very famous Canadian doctor and he said that cigarrettes are worse than marijuana.Personally i am opposed to marijuana but i shouldnt make that choice for everyone.


Last edited by Karmaism on Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:36 pm 
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Karmaism wrote:
I talked to my father who is a very famous Canadian doctor and he said that marijuana is worse thancigarrettes.Personally i am opposed to marijuana but i shouldnt make that choice for everyone.


I see...

Karmaism wrote:
Marijuana > Beer> Cigarrettes >LSD or Cocaine.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:20 am 
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Ju Ju Master wrote:
Karmaism wrote:
I talked to my father who is a very famous Canadian doctor and he said that marijuana is worse thancigarrettes.Personally i am opposed to marijuana but i shouldnt make that choice for everyone.


I see...

Karmaism wrote:
Marijuana > Beer> Cigarrettes >LSD or Cocaine.

Oops cigarrettes worse than weed.I don't think it is a matter of which is worse but of whether the government should decide whether you can be high or you do.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:15 am 
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Karmaism wrote:
Ju Ju Master wrote:
Karmaism wrote:
I talked to my father who is a very famous Canadian doctor and he said that marijuana is worse thancigarrettes.Personally i am opposed to marijuana but i shouldnt make that choice for everyone.


I see...

Karmaism wrote:
Marijuana > Beer> Cigarrettes >LSD or Cocaine.

Oops cigarrettes worse than weed.I don't think it is a matter of which is worse but of whether the government should decide whether you can be high or you do.


so then Cigarets are worse than LSD and Cocaine?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:09 pm 
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according to this, they are worse than LSD. LSD doesn't lead to cancer, smarty.

"On the front page of the Independent newspaper today was a chart of the top twenty most dangerous drugs here is the chart

Independent experts calculate score is out of three which equals extreme danger allowing for physical harm,dependence and social harm

1 Heroin 2.75
2 Cocaine 2.25
3 Barbiturates 2.10
4 Street Methadone 1.90
5 Alcohol 1.85
6 Ketamine 1.80
7 Benzodiazopines 1.75
8 Amphetamines 1.70
9 Tobacco 1.65
10 Buprenorphine 1.55
11 Cannabis 1.40
12 Solvents 1.35
13 4-MTA 1.30
14 LSD 1.25
15 Methylphenidate 1.20
16 Anabolic Steroids 1.15
17 GHB 1.10
18 Ecstasy 1.05
19 Alkyl Nitrites 0.95
20 Khat 0.80 "


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:07 pm 
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Did they indicate dosage? A large dose of alchohol can kill you, but a small dose won't do much, it can actually help you. No dose of marijuana is lethal, but even a small dose can get you high.

Dr. Lurve wrote:
LSD doesn't lead to cancer, smarty.


Well, you don't have to insult him.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:58 pm 
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Ecstasy's only 18th? I thought for sure that was one of the most dangerous drugs out there.
I tend to agree with the posters who explained the outlawing of marijuana as a way to protect other people besides the user. You already see people stealing money and car stereos for another hit (or for any other drug).

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:06 pm 
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I think we are getting off-topic.The topic was MARIJUANA legal or illegal.Not "Is LSD the worst drug".


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:22 pm 
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Karmaism wrote:
I think we are getting off-topic.The topic was MARIJUANA legal or illegal.Not "Is LSD the worst drug".


We're not even talking about LSD anymore. The majority of the post above was on topic. (And he didn't mention LSD in the other part)

I agree, art. Marijuana is illegal because it effects people other than the user, which doesn't seem right. CIgarettes and alchohol can effect others, but they do much less than marijuana and other drugs, and laws such as "No smoking indoor public spaces" have been put into place the rate of non-smokers who are affected by others who smoke. It's much harder to stop these problems in the case of drugs.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:14 am 
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Medicinal use is fine by me.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:45 am 
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Maybe we should be talking about "tobacco - legal or illegal"


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:12 am 
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I think tobacco should be illegal, but it's been an American institution for so long that banning it would be extremely difficuilt. If not, we could either raise the taxes on tobacco, ban smoking in more places, or raise the minimum purchasing age.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:21 am 
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I am in favor of banning smoking in public places like restaurants. There are some restaurants in Greenville I can't even eat at because their no-smoking sections are practically non-existent.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:26 am 
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We just passed a statewide public-places ban about a month ago here in Colorado. Most places are losing money, but some are building outdoor smoking patios.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:30 am 
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IantheGecko wrote:
We just passed a statewide public-places ban about a month ago here in Colorado. Most places are losing money, but some are building outdoor smoking patios.


They did that to the bars in Lexington, KY a couple years ago. Initially, the bars lost money, but, eventually, people started coming back. It's only a temporary hit to businesses, far outweighed by public health benefits.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:30 am 
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St. Louis passed a law like that before I moved. There was one bar-grill type place that actually built a complex ventilation and partitian system so they could keep their smoking section.

The problem with so-called "No Smoking" sections is that very often there is nothing to prevent the smoke from drifting over from the Smoking sections.

Here's something that annoys the Living Crap out of me: I ask for No Smoking, and they put me there -- RIGHT NEXT TO A SMOKING TABLE!! X-(

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:11 pm 
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Here's an interesting rant I saw just now, which makes a very interesting point:

This Atheist Guy wrote:
I'm not sure about you, but I'm getting fairly sick of seeing the hateful and violent nature of religion being justified and dismissed through the claim that only the minority are turned into biggoted, murderous, psychotic bastards through its practice. Every time another abortion doctor is murdered, innocent people are beaten because of their sexual preference or some nut kills her whole family because God told her to, my critisism of religion is met with, "But not all Christians are like that! Those are just the bad ones!" And I will not debate this fact. It's true that the vast majority of religiously driven people do not run around killing and beating people.

However, let's give this some thought. Take a look at this video clip from the show "Trading Spouses". This woman should be locked up. I've seen people overdosed on LSD who were more rational. From the clip, you can see that her family is obviously frightened by her. The idea that this woman is actually running around loose on the streets at this very moment almost makes me want to stay indoors. She is a sad example of the state of mind to which religion is capable of driving people. We must, however, realize that not all people are affected in this way. Only some of them.

Keep this in mind. We'll come back to our friendly, neighborhood Christian wingnut shortly.

In 2004, almost 2 million arrests were made for drug abuse violations. Between 1994 and 1998, an average of 5.2% of all homocides in the US were motivated by illegal drug use and sales. In fact, 22.4% of Federal and 32.6% of all state inmates in 1997 reported that they were under the influence of drugs at the time they were arrested for their crimes. Drugs are illegal because they cause people to act in an uncivilized and sometimes violent way. Drugs are bad, mmmkay?

Do drugs cause such a reaction in all people? No. In 2004 there were 19.1 million drug users in the US. So, either massive millions of drug users are slyly getting away with drug related murders while they're stoned to oblivion -- or they're simply not committing them. But because drugs can motivate a small minority of the people who use them to behave in a socially destructive way, they are forbidden to be used even by the vast majority who aren't affected in this way.

Religion can and has driven millions of people into an unstable, psychotic state. Religiously motivated violence, including holy wars, acts of terrorism and simple murders, vandalism and assaults have far overshadowed the number of these same crimes that were drug inspired. Yet, the integrity of religion is defended by the reasoning that only the minority is affected in this way -- at the same time this very same reasoning is used to criminalize and demonize drug users! You are free to practice your religion because God doesn't whisper to everyone and tell them to fire bomb the gay bar down the block. But a guy who holds a steady job, pays his rent and has never hurt anyone will go to jail for the rest of his his natural life because he likes to smoke the same particular weed as some freak job who stabbed his neighbor's cat to death with a salad fork after he smoked it!

We can't have it both ways, folks. If it's a crime to use something that causes even a few people to turn into psycho Funk and kill people, then religion has to go. If, on the other hand, a way of life that has driven people to violence and murder can be justified by casting judement only on the majority, then drugs must be free to be used by whoever chooses to indulge.

Unfortunately, no one has the balls to support either idea. And there's no logical reason not to...

...unless, of course, one of these groups of people is making the laws for the other.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:07 pm 
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I'm all for the legalisation. Not just for medicinal use either... Oh boy. I've lost some friends here...

Someone a few pages back said that it would send out a bad message to kids if we legalised it. But cigarettes are legal, and I was taught all through primarary school that they are wrong and evil and they will pull out your spleen. This was drilled into me so much, that I will quite possibly never smoke a cigarette, ever...

So even if it's legalised, you will still have these lobby groups hounding the message into young kids, which in itself, is enough to stop a vast majority of kids.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:24 pm 
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Cigarettes are legal, true. But, as I have contended earlier in this thread, they ought to be outlawed. Unlike marijuana, cigarettes have no medicinal value, so as far as I'm concerned, there's no use for them whatsoever to justify the horrible effects of cancer, emphyzema, and heart risks that they create. And this is coming from a guy whose stepfather just died from cancer due to heavy cigarette usage.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:38 pm 
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The biggest problem is all the people currently addicted to cigarettes (who might be trying and can't quit). They'd be stuck.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:30 pm 
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Well, the main reason Marijauna is so infamous, is because the people selling it put horrible chemicals in it, that cause death, but raise addiction. If all the chemicals were removed, it wouldn't be A+ still, but it'd be like cigarretes almost, only more... graphic. If they made putting certain chemicals in it illegal, then I would say they should treat it like smoking. You can smoke it in private places, like your home, but not in places that are public, because they would not like it.

If they don't realize the chemicals put in it, then, I'd say, illegal.

For Medical reasons, it should be legal. It helps pain go away. It is the strongest natural pain killer. The Native Americans used it as a pain killer... and ceremonies.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:58 pm 
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Snailmail wrote:
Well, the main reason Marijauna is so infamous, is because the people selling it put horrible chemicals in it, that cause death, but raise addiction. If all the chemicals were removed, it wouldn't be A+ still, but it'd be like cigarretes almost, only more... graphic. If they made putting certain chemicals in it illegal, then I would say they should treat it like smoking. You can smoke it in private places, like your home, but not in places that are public, because they would not like it.

If they don't realize the chemicals put in it, then, I'd say, illegal.


Funny...I always heard it was the other way around: that marijuana was typically produced and smoked in its natural state, whereas with cigarettes, there are a whole host of additives to the tobacco that increase addiction at the cost of killing you much, much quicker. In fact, here's a list of stuff they put in legalized cigarettes.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:57 am 
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Fully legal. So what if some guy smokes dope in his basement with a bag of sun chips? It's not my problem until he makes it my problem. I say we legalize drugs and attach all the rules we've applied to Alcohol and Tobacco.

It's none of my business to tell you what to smoke until your decision interferes with mine or anybody else's business.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:40 am 
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WEll, here's the real answer to whether Marijuana will become legal... no. The CIA makes money off illegal activities. They sell drugs, so making Marijuana legal in any way would lower the price, because they want the price to stay UP.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:43 am 
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An argument that has absolutely no bearing on the root issues. You might as well argue that the CIA makes money off of terrorism, therefore terrorism ought to be legal.

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 Post subject: Out of Context Post (Yea!)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:20 pm 
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I don't feel like reading pages of arguments, so I'll just throw in my two cents... or three.

I've done a lot of thinking about this subject, and this is what I've come to.

First off, I don't smoke, drink, or whathaveyou.

I absolutely think that marijuana should be illegal. It has negative effects on the body, both physical and mental--if overused. That almost goes without saying.

However, if marijuana is illegal, then why isn't alcohol? It has similar effects on the body, some even more severe than pot. Both impair your ability to think and discern.

I don't feel like making a big ol' post about this, so here's my conclusion.

I'm not saying that pot should be legalized because alcohol is just restricted, but if you're using marijuana as a precedent to define the "legality" of other drugs, it brings up questions.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:28 am 
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The thing about alcohol is, you can consume it in safe amounts, some of which can actually be good for you. However, most other drugs are "bad" for people who don't need it unless they're in treatment for something that requires the drug.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:12 am 
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No, alcohol is legal because it is socially acceptable, while drugs, for the large part, are not.

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 Post subject: Re: Out of Context Post (Yea!)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:45 am 
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Mockingbird wrote:
I absolutely think that marijuana should be illegal. It has negative effects on the body, both physical and mental--if overused. That almost goes without saying.
I think they go by addictiveness. Same reason why the lottery is legal and other types of gambling aren't. Okay, maybe alchohol isn't more addictive than marijuana. I could be wrong about that part. Just a guess.

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