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 Post subject: Tony Blair has quite the record
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:05 pm 
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"A record of conflict: the death toll from wars Britain has fought under three prime ministers

Tony Blair
71,617 deaths
9 years in power

Iraq war (2003-)

115 UK troop deaths 30,000 Iraqi troop deaths (estimate by Gen Tommy Franks in Oct 2003) 39,460-43,927 civilian deaths (Iraq Body Count)

Afghanistan (2001-)

16 UK troop deaths (as of 1 August 2006)

1,300-8,000 direct civilian deaths (Guardian estimate). Unknown Taliban deaths

Sierra Leone (2000-2002)

1 UK troop death 25 foreign troop deaths (at least)

Nato bombing of Serbia (1999)

No UK troop deaths. Unknown Serbian troop deaths 500-1,500 civilian deaths (according to Human Rights Watch/Nato estimates)

Operation Desert Fox (1998)

200-300 Iraqi deaths (based on UN estimate)

John Major
22,316 deaths
7 years in power

Gulf war (1991)

16 UK troop deaths 20,000-22,000 Iraqi troop deaths 2,300 civilian deaths (according to the Iraqi government)

Margaret Thatcher
1,013 deaths
11 years in power

US bombing of Libya from UK bases (1986)

100 Libyan deaths

Falklands war (1982)

255 UK troop deaths 655 Argentinian troop deaths 3 Civilian deaths



The figures do not take into account the estimated 350,000 Iraqis who died as a result of sanctions between 1991 and 2003 - under John Major and Tony Blair.

Blair's body count is probably underestimated here because there are no figures for Taliban and Serbian military deaths.

Estimates for Iraqi deaths range between 30,000 and 300,000. The official Bush estimate is 30,000 deaths. Iraq Body Count estimates between 39,460 and 43,927, although it admits this is far below the real total, as the database counts only reported deaths. A Lancet report in 2004 estimated 100,000 deaths, although one of the authors says the total could be 300,000.

Research: Daniel Trilling

http://www.newstatesman.com/200608070017 "


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:55 pm 
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I wouldn't always trust the New Stateman a whole lot, because of their decidedly right-wing bias.* But those figures are more or less accurate. Mind you, although Blair was one of the initiators of the Gulf and Afghanistan wars, you couldn't really blame him for Sierra Leone or Serbia. Those were UN/NATO initiatives.

One thing I'd say in Blair's defense - he did an exceptionally good job on Northern Ireland. Thatcher did a loooooot of damage in her term - especially in terms of UK/Irish governmental relations. Major and Blair really helped to bring the situation out of the mire.

Too bad the rest of the world is crumbling though. ^_^


* Yeah, yeah - I'd be saying the same thing if they had a left-wing bias.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:11 pm 
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I'm going to focus on the Iraq War and Afganistan, since that's the one that seems to have the largest claims.

Could you perhaps give us a report on how all those civillians died? Most of the time civillian deaths wouldn't be Blair's fault, car bombs are the first thing that come to my mind. And in the Afganistan count, you mention "Unnown Taliban daths". Obviously they're not counted, sicne the number is unknown, but how can taliban deaths be counted badly towards Blair? Am I missing something?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:08 pm 
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Ju Ju Master wrote:
Could you perhaps give us a report on how all those civillians died? Most of the time civillian deaths wouldn't be Blair's fault, car bombs are the first thing that come to my mind.


the Lancet (British medical journal) report authors went door-to-door in Iraq taking a survey of the population, asking people how many family members had died. The number of deaths was 100,000 more than was expected from what the death rate was before the war, so the conclusion was that factors from the war caused 100,000 more deaths than there would have been if there was no war.

Iraq Body Count counts every death reported in two media sources that is in some way attributed to the war. For instance, without the war, there would be no insurgency, so car bomb deaths count. There have been over 40,000 deaths that they can back up with at least two reports, and you wouldn't think that most civilian deaths in an unstable region like that would be reported. The 100,000-300,000 figure is probably right.

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