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Super Smash Bros. Brawl Discussion
http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=12159		 Page 22 of 130
Author:  Capt. Ido Nos [ Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:36 pm ]
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Joshua wrote:
Capt. Ido Nos wrote:
I object! Clearly I am not a butt :O

I was however, kinda not thrilled with some of the stuff posted, just soley for the fact of the whizz-bang he's announcing the space jump and map. Yes yes, the map is shiny and such, but space jump doesn't seem that special to me after getting annoyed with it from experiencing sudden jumps whilst co-oping in halo -_-"

It is, on the bright side, good that they've included it, because dying because player one ran too far would be even worse XD


Just because you found the map shiny and the space jump annoying, doesn't keep it from being a very meaty update with plenty of substance and new information. Expecially when we got a double update yesterday.

Sorry to step all over your toes, but I've heard enough complaints about Sakurai not giving us enough free info every day for be a bit peeved at it. :P

Yeah, and I've been trying to glean as much as I possibly can from each update, so I was a wee bit surprosed to be toes'd up ons on my first ever expression of doubt of the awesomeness of a particular update ;p
Author:  Somm-1 [ Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:51 pm ]
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Capt. Ido Nos wrote:
*hangs head in shame*
Yes Miss Late...
My habit of addressing the females of your species in a courteous manner seems to be catching on.
Author:  ramrod [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:15 am ]
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Somm-1 wrote:
Capt. Ido Nos wrote:
*hangs head in shame*
Yes Miss Late...
My habit of addressing the females of your species in a courteous manner seems to be catching on.
What do you mean? I've been doing that for years. I patented it!
Author:  Acekirby [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:45 am ]
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This Co-op mode really reminds me of the Helper function in Kirby's Super Star. Hal Labs knows when things are awesome.

Joshua wrote:
Seriously, some people have whined over the "lack of any new information" in the Wi-Fi update.

The reason I wasn't satisfied with that update was that we all knew it was going to be Wi-Fi (you're kidding yourself if you thought Nintendo was going to release it without it), and that other than the small quotes you can yell at each other during friend battles, there's nothing different than any other Wi-Fi game we've seen. Heck, there's less, even. You don't get an online profile, which is something they have been doing since their first Wi-Fi game ever (or at least the first one of any worth), Mario Kart DS. Apparently you can't keep track of wins-losses, nor can you play "ranked" matches against people your level. So say you're an insane player, you could get stuck with 3 novice players, or vice versa. However, the ranked match is probably something they may introduce later. Friend codes are back again as well, along with all the fallibilities of the system (overly complicated and long, no way to invite random players).

I was right there with DG when she said it was exactly what she expected, no more, no less. Well, for me, it was a little less. But they've still got a lot to reveal so I'm hoping all will be told to me in due time.
Author:  Joshua [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:00 am ]
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Well this is going off-topic, but I guess with the weekend approaching with no dojo updates, that's okay.

Acekirby wrote:
The reason I wasn't satisfied with that update was that we all knew it was going to be Wi-Fi (you're kidding yourself if you thought Nintendo was going to release it without it), and that other than the small quotes you can yell at each other during friend battles, there's nothing different than any other Wi-Fi game we've seen. Heck, there's less, even. You don't get an online profile, which is something they have been doing since their first Wi-Fi game ever (or at least the first one of any worth), Mario Kart DS. Apparently you can't keep track of wins-losses, nor can you play "ranked" matches against people your level. So say you're an insane player, you could get stuck with 3 novice players, or vice versa. However, the ranked match is probably something they may introduce later. Friend codes are back again as well, along with all the fallibilities of the system (overly complicated and long, no way to invite random players).


Firstly, Wi-Fi was hardly a guaranteed mode for Brawl. Prior to the website's update, the only time we had heard of it was way E3 2005, when it was first announces. I'd also like to note that at this time it was also announced as a Wii launch title. While it made a plenty big stir, we didn't really get any other news after that. To make things even more shaky, at E3 2007 Nintendo showed off Mario Kart Wii as their first serious forray into console online, without even mentioning Brawl's capabilities. As someone who was following Brawl news very closely, there was plenty to be worried about.

Now I've never played Mario Kart DS (or any of Nintendo's online offerings thusfar, unfortunately), but from what I heard it is often an unenjoyable experience full of quitters and snaking that guarantees a single player's victory. I'm sure plenty of people have had fun matches, but I have heard a lot of complaints.

The way I see it, for a game like Smash Brothers where the whole idea of the game is that you become focused on beating another single enemy, opponents quitting would be a much bigger pain than in, say, a racing game or FPS. So while having unranked games on random may seem to suck out the point of them, hopefully it can help as well by lowering the amount of quitters.

Fortunately Smash Bros isn't as easily broken as Mario Kart, and there shouldn't be any kind of "super technique" such as snaking to ruin a match.

As for online profile and record keeping and such, we don't really know what the extent of the "With Friends" mode has, so we can't really complain. You may get a sort of profile with wins and losses, we need more information. As for friend codes, yeah, I guess they're an inconvenience, but they really don't take too long to input and personally I'm used to them by now. (Plus the SSBB codes are only twelve numbers long rather than sixteen.)
Author:  extremejon09 [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Joshua wrote:
Firstly, Wi-Fi was hardly a guaranteed mode for Brawl.

No

Quote:
Fortunately Smash Bros isn't as easily broken as Mario Kart, and there shouldn't be any kind of "super technique" such as snaking to ruin a match.


Wavedashing, canceling...
Author:  Joshua [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
extremejon09 wrote:
Joshua wrote:
Firstly, Wi-Fi was hardly a guaranteed mode for Brawl.

No


I must say, the evidence backing up your claims is astounding and unrefutable.

If you want to have a discussion, that's fine. But no omniscient crap. It won't get you anywhere.

extremejon09 wrote:
Quote:
Fortunately Smash Bros isn't as easily broken as Mario Kart, and there shouldn't be any kind of "super technique" such as snaking to ruin a match.


Wavedashing, canceling...

Ha ha, not quite. While things such as wavedashing and l-canceling can definitely enhance a player's fighting skills, it'll by no means break the game and give them an automatic win (as opposed to perfect snaking). You can wavedash, l-cancel, short hop, crouch cancel, shffl, shine, and directionally influence all over the place but it won't do you any good unless you can put it all together in a solid battle strategy with powerful combos and strong defenses.
Author:  Acekirby [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:42 am ]
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I don't understand how you could have really believed that Brawl was going to come out without Wi-Fi play. Obviously Nintendo was going to go all-out in every aspect of it. Stikers was introduced as Nintendo's first real foray into online play because it was coming out months before Brawl. I saw nothing that would have suggested to me that they were not going to be able to get Wi-Fi play in it.

Joshua wrote:
Now I've never played Mario Kart DS (or any of Nintendo's online offerings thusfar, unfortunately), but from what I heard it is often an unenjoyable experience full of quitters and snaking that guarantees a single player's victory. I'm sure plenty of people have had fun matches, but I have heard a lot of complaints.

The way I see it, for a game like Smash Brothers where the whole idea of the game is that you become focused on beating another single enemy, opponents quitting would be a much bigger pain than in, say, a racing game or FPS. So while having unranked games on random may seem to suck out the point of them, hopefully it can help as well by lowering the amount of quitters.

Wi-Fi matches in Mario Kart are quite like what we've seen with the Brawl matches. You have a "Friends" option where you race friends, a "Rivals" option which is like a ranked match against people with similar win percentages, a "Regional" match where you play against people from the same region of the world (ie New England), and a "Worldwide" match where you play a random opponent from anywhere in the world. The only match where you're guaranteed that no one will quit is "Friends".

I think you could encounter the same problem with Brawl that many do in Mario Kart. If you do "Regional" or "Worldwide" in Mario Kart, you could be either pitted against someone (or three people) who is 0-76 or 100-3. Obviously you're going to have more of a challenge against the 100-3 person. The same would be true for Brawl, even though you can't see wins-losses. You can't tell whether you're going to be fighting three scrubs or three tournament winners. And you can't deny that someone who's played Smash Bros a lot and knows edge guarding and things like that will have a huge advantage over the many that have no clue about those things.
Author:  Homerun Starrer [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:48 am ]
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Yeah, SSBB needs a matchmaking thing. Badly.

To be honest Nintendo's always a step or two behind when it comes to online play.
Author:  Joshua [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Acekirby wrote:
I don't understand how you could have really believed that Brawl was going to come out without Wi-Fi play. Obviously Nintendo was going to go all-out in every aspect of it. Stikers was introduced as Nintendo's first real foray into online play because it was coming out months before Brawl. I saw nothing that would have suggested to me that they were not going to be able to get Wi-Fi play in it.


Eh, Nintendo's internet record isn't that hot and is very recent. Brawl is a very complex game where hundreds of commands would have to get sent through the server every second, and lag would have to be handled very carefully to not ruin the experience, because things need to be very precise to work.

And yeah, first forray was the wrong word. But online Mario Kart was they showed off as their proof that they hadn't abandoned the serious gamer. It was kind of disheartening to not get any similar news to SSBB. And remember their plan in E3 2005... which they had already failed half of.

Also, Sakurai said they were having trouble with online in his old Japanese blog on the other website. The game may have been going all out, but they could have just been compensating for a lack of online.

I understand if you were uninformed enough to not have any doubts on Wi-Fi play, but there's my explanation for why me and plenty of other people had a sigh of relief on update #100.
Author:  Cleverdan [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:30 pm ]
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Unfortunatley, lag is going to be a serious problem. In a game where lighting fast reactions are needed, it could really mess up a game.
Author:  ramrod [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cleverdan wrote:
Unfortunatley, lag is going to be a serious problem. In a game where lighting fast reactions are needed, it could really mess up a game.
Well, there are other games online that need fast reactions like that too, and for the most part, they've been pretty good about it.
Author:  firemarc924 [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:37 pm ]
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i dont know about the lag thing. Ive only played one online Wii game (Mario Strikers: Charged) and thats almost completley lag free. And the occasional lag isnt really choppy, its more a slow down thing. I think lag on Brawl will be nothing to worry about.
Author:  Beardo [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:44 pm ]
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If Mortal Kombat can go without lag, I'm pretty sure this can. :rolleyes:
Author:  Joshua [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:58 am ]
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Uhh... guys?

"But because this form of communication is greatly affected by the distance between you and your opponent, your brawls may not run smoothly if you’re really far apart—like, for instance, if you’re connecting between Japan and America. The more distant you are, the worse your connection becomes, and the slower it feels. I apologize, but I hope you understand."

So yeah, this game will have lag. Expecially for crappy connections like mine. Hopefully he's found a way to make it work well around it, such as decreasing frame rate or game speed or something to keep things relatively stable.
Author:  Vitruvian Dude [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:09 am ]
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Why can't they make it not lag?

Image
Nintendo doesn't care about online people.
Author:  StrongRad [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:16 am ]
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Joshua wrote:
So yeah, this game will have lag. Expecially for crappy connections like mine.

Image Well there's yer problem!

I hate lag in online games, but ya gotta realize that, a lot of times, having a faster connection will help fix that. Unless, of course, the other person is playing on dial-up or you've already got the best connection you can.

Then, I don't know what to tell you.
Author:  Acekirby [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:55 am ]
Post subject: 
Joshua wrote:
I understand if you were uninformed enough to not have any doubts on Wi-Fi play, but there's my explanation for why me and plenty of other people had a sigh of relief on update #100.

No need for a condescending attitude.
Author:  extremejon09 [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:35 am ]
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Srsly Josh. So negative about everything.

I really think they've changed something about the attacks. I mean, Samus's Standard B move shoots the laser, but her downsmash shoots the laser downwards? The planting of snake's mine as a smash move, and Mario's cyclone...

So what, Smash attacks are now special attacks also?
Author:  Capt. Ido Nos [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
extremejon09 wrote:
Srsly Josh. So negative about everything.

I really think they've changed something about the attacks. I mean, Samus's Standard B move shoots the laser, but her downsmash shoots the laser downwards? The planting of snake's mine as a smash move, and Mario's cyclone...

So what, Smash attacks are now special attacks also?

I was just wondering the same thing. I'm not entirely sure that it's really just the way he's saying it for all of them, it just doesn't seem quite that intuitive for some of the directions he's saying to what attack comes of it. Maybe it's just some mistranslational stuff and it shall all be made slightly more clear on the 3rd.
Author:  Acekirby [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:30 am ]
Post subject: 
extremejon09 wrote:
I really think they've changed something about the attacks. I mean, Samus's Standard B move shoots the laser, but her downsmash shoots the laser downwards? The planting of snake's mine as a smash move, and Mario's cyclone...

So what, Smash attacks are now special attacks also?

Yeah, I was thinking about this to...what in the world are they doing? Smash attacks should be physical attacks.
Author:  Shadowfox [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:11 pm ]
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Image

Dinner is served.
Author:  Capt. Ido Nos [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:20 pm ]
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Kirby == Yes.

"Ashley Song" == Very no.
Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:46 pm ]
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SSB background songs should not have lyrics.
Author:  Ath-a-late [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ju Ju Master wrote:
SSB background songs should not have lyrics.


PUT YOUR HANDS TOGETHER IF YOU WANT TO CLAP
AS WE TAKE YOU THROUGH THIS FUN-KY RAP! HUH!
Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:47 pm ]
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Oh yeah...

Well, these are more noticeable and annoying.

(The Japanese ones aren't as bad. Still would be better with none at all)
Author:  Ath-a-late [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:58 pm ]
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Which is why I'm extra thankful for My Music. I'll disable that song altogether.

Huh... this is the first time I seriously disliked a SBD update. It feels... weeeeeiiiiird.

Image
Author:  Cleverdan [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:08 pm ]
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I would be plenty happy with this update if it were to be the original song. The new higher pitch version sounds pretty crappy, though.

Cook Kirby is cool.
Author:  Color Printer [ Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:58 am ]
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Zero Suit Samus moves = yay
Kirby Cook = double yay
Ashley's song = yay
The fact that they changed the song = DIE
Author:  Joshua [ Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:38 am ]
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Guys none of that matters any more.
Playable Smash in one and a half weeks.

Due to being on the other side of the country, I highly doubt I'll be able to experience it. Oh the agonies. Will anyone else here be lucky enough to?
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