Either enforce the rules you have or get rid of them

The Experimental Film · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:10 am

Capt. Ido Nos wrote:

Wait, so Teff, correct me if I'm wrong, but your point of "if this isn't a democracy, why have rules" to me seems to suggest that a democracy is the only type of (for lack of a better term) government that allows rules? If that if so, then that sort of implies that every other form of government cannot support rules? So like, England can't have rules? Rome couldn't have rules? Soviet Russia, could they have rules? I guess not, I mean they're not democracies. Oh! And since America is technically a republic, we don't have any rules either.

You know what would be great (not to mention appropriate!)?

If my previous post was sarcasm... and if words like "democracy" and "monarchy" and "republic" (and, I guess, even "dictatorship") didn't really apply at all to the Internet... and if my entire argument and all the rebuttals I need were contained in my first post, which apparently nobody actually read...

OH WAIT! That's all true! Imagine!

Capt. Ido Nos · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:56 am

Hei Teff, here's some debate suggestion: interspersing your actual arguments with bits of sarcasm does not help further your cause, and to claim that you've got refutes to all your possible rebuttals isn't good style, because someone can almost always come up with something you weren't expecting.

Just to let you know. Yeah, and I read your post as well. I like to read entire threads. It helps to know what they're about, you know?

The Experimental Film · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:01 am

Capt. Ido Nos wrote:

because someone can almost always come up with something you weren't expecting.

Then it'd be nice if someone actually would.

I'd like to feel like I'm accomplishing something here.

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:41 am

Teff, just stop, we stopped talking about forum politics because things are going great, and there is no need to change any rules.

Capt. Ido Nos · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:16 pm

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:

Teff, just stop, we stopped talking about forum politics because things are going great, and there is no need to change any rules.

This is essentially the big problem with your arguments Teff. Except for your being annoyed with TFE's purple font, nobody is having any real problems, and pretty much we fail to see why this is an earth-stopping issue.

Inverse Tiger · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:51 pm

I have noticed favoritism and selective application of the rules since I started reading here again (not the TFE color thing, didn't realize some people even could find that annoying). It doesn't seem to be causing much trouble now, but it's not exactly ideal. Then again, if there's one thing I've learned lately it's that "the perfect is the enemy of the good". This place seems to be doing OK for what it is and who uses it, so don't start tinkering. But if stuff starts going sour, remember this rule stuff -- it could be a solution.

So, just talking from a magical land in which perfection is possible, Teff is totally right about the fuzziness of the rules. That was one of my main goals as a mod when I was one, to try to get everyone on the same page and do something about enforcement. Problem is, mods aren't enforce-o-bots, but just promoted users who don't want to lose the fun of being here by having to deal with rules and procedure all the frickin time, and I was too much a wuss to enforce anything on people I considered friends anyway. It's just an internet forum, you know. Mods don't have the incentive to feel hassled about anything. So maybe instead of a tightening, a more... generalizing of the rules would be better, with more leaning on Rule 1. It's not the best thing for a real system of government, but this isn't real life at all either, and at least then there wouldn't be periodic confusion over specifics of rules not being enforced, because there wouldn't be specifics.

TheFacelessEvil · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:53 pm

Disk, I think you hit the nail right on the head.
And so did Inverse.
And so did COLA.
And Capt...
and...
oh shoot so many smart people.

Acekirby · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:27 pm

Strengthen Rule 1

Eliminate all other rules except "Use Common Sense" and leave interpretations of what is and isn't allowed up to the moderators and administrators

Problems solved

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:30 pm

Inverse Tiger wrote:

I have noticed favoritism and selective application of the rules since I started reading here again (not the TFE color thing, didn't realize some people even could find that annoying). It doesn't seem to be causing much trouble now, but it's not exactly ideal. Then again, if there's one thing I've learned lately it's that "the perfect is the enemy of the good". This place seems to be doing OK for what it is and who uses it, so don't start tinkering. But if stuff starts going sour, remember this rule stuff -- it could be a solution.

So, just talking from a magical land in which perfection is possible, Teff is totally right about the fuzziness of the rules. That was one of my main goals as a mod when I was one, to try to get everyone on the same page and do something about enforcement. Problem is, mods aren't enforce-o-bots, but just promoted users who don't want to lose the fun of being here by having to deal with rules and procedure all the frickin time, and I was too much a wuss to enforce anything on people I considered friends anyway. It's just an internet forum, you know. Mods don't have the incentive to feel hassled about anything. So maybe instead of a tightening, a more... generalizing of the rules would be better, with more leaning on Rule 1. It's not the best thing for a real system of government, but this isn't real life at all either, and at least then there wouldn't be periodic confusion over specifics of rules not being enforced, because there wouldn't be specifics.

In essence, Rule 1, 2, and 7 are the only rules which HAVE to be enforced, and the rest are guidelines that a new user is expected to at least follow.

TheFacelessEvil · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:40 pm

Acekirby wrote:

Strengthen Rule 1

Eliminate all other rules except "Use Common Sense" and leave interpretations of what is and isn't allowed up to the moderators and administrators

Problems solved

Hee hee hee, I like it.

Inverse Tiger · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:48 pm

Tho if that's what happens, we should have a little set of "usually we don't allow..." stuff that new users can see.

But still, since I spent so much time on the "what if" side up there I should reiterate: I don't actually think anything needs changing right now.

Acekirby · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:49 pm

Or I could just decide everything

IantheGecko · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:27 pm

Yes, Mr. Bush.

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:32 pm

You can just call me Bill.

Acekirby · **Posted:** Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:09 pm

You may call me...Tim.

Einoo T. Spork · **Posted:** Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:20 am

You can call me Al if I get to call you Betty.

StrongRad · **Posted:** Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:09 pm

Ok. You people are spamming.
I find that highly funny in a thread that's all butt-hurt about us not enforcing the rules.

Get on topic or don't post.

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:15 pm

StrongRad wrote:

Ok. You people are spamming.
I find that highly funny in a thread that's all butt-hurt about us not enforcing the rules.

Get on topic or don't post.

The only problem is that only one person was butthurt about it, we're all fine with them.

Acekirby · **Posted:** Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:10 pm

StrongRad wrote:

Ok. You people are spamming.
I find that highly funny in a thread that's all butt-hurt about us not enforcing the rules.

Get on topic or don't post.

derp de derp de derp read the thread only one person's really complaining here

lahimatoa · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:12 am

Poor. Teff. Came along with his ideas at the wrong time. Don't want to hook your car to the Lahi Train, no siree.

That said, it seem TFE left for reasons much like Teff was talking about here. Lack of consistent moderation, for one.

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:15 am

Yeah, but when were all backed by someone with power, we have no fear of anything, right?

Capt. Ido Nos · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:18 am

Before this goes ANY further after seeing what has happened in recent time, I am going to say this:

We, the modmin staff, are working very hard towards consistency. We have active discussions going on about the ways we should go towards achieving this goal. We're fully aware that there are problems with the status quo, and while we do appreciate all the input you guys give us, it is also helpful to not have everyone go off on identical tirades about how awful we are.

I'm not pointing fingers when I say that, I only ask everyone to please give us the time that we need to get ourselves, the rules, and this place sorted out. With that being said, this thread will be locked if we end up having too much of the same going on in this thread. Constructive criticism only, anything much less will only make the process take longer. So please, be considerate and help us help everyone.

lahimatoa · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:19 am

Quote:

I only ask everyone to please give us the time that we need to get ourselves, the rules, and this place sorted out.

Fair enough.

Capt. Ido Nos · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:20 am

lahimatoa wrote:

Quote:

I only ask everyone to please give us the time that we need to get ourselves, the rules, and this place sorted out.

Fair enough.

Thank you.

See everyone? Civil discourse - it works!

gino · **Joined:** Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:40 pm **Posts:** 802

I have no problems with the administration. But I really don't understand what happened last night.

StrongRad · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:36 pm

gino wrote:

I really don't understand what happened last night.

Don't worry. We don't either.

Probably had something to do with them daggum alpacas again...

DS_Kid · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:00 pm

You haven't killed those blasted creatures yet?

StrongRad · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:02 pm

DS_Kid wrote:

You haven't killed those blasted creatures yet?

PETA and the WWF (not the rasslers).

Capt. Ido Nos · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:06 pm

However, we are being paid a nice sum of money to house these endangered creatures, so there's a small conflict of interest. Server-eating alpacas are rare, you guys. Rare, exceedingly tiresome, yet profitable!

Stu · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:07 pm

and moving right along. Leave the animals alone, and get back on topic before I have to thump someone.

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Either enforce the rules you have or get rid of them

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