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http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12980		 Page 5 of 20
Author:  MikeMcG [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:21 am ]
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I think Inverse has it right with his guidelines.
Author:  For Reals Deals [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:28 am ]
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Inverse knows where it's at, yo.
Author:  Einoo T. Spork [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:45 am ]
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You're a good man, Inverse Brown.
Author:  AbuGrape45 [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:57 am ]
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Inverse is wise...
Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:31 am ]
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Ah, I've been looking for that! Yeah, it is a pretty good guide.
Author:  Einoo T. Spork [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:06 am ]
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All right, enough mindless agreement, let's discuss the various points this guide makes and see if we can come to a consensus about what the great ideas are, what the good ideas are, and what the ideas that just won't work are.

I: THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE GUIDELINES

1: Totally agree'D completely. Moderators should learn that they are not above any other users. They are granted the power to move and lock threads and edit posts and such, but otherwise they are just another user and their powers could be stripped of them at any time. This applies to admins a little less, but it's still pretty relevant.

2: Also good. Only suggestion I have is that an edit shouldn't be made without the modmin signing it, because apparently people don't like that. Actually, perhaps the modmins should try to be discreet to a point; after that, though, they need to alert the offender publicly if that may get them to stop.

3: Seems good. Too often modmins seem to let personal bias influence their decisions.

4: Sure, why not.

5: Mos def. Too often modmins will get up in arms about some in-joke they don't understand and call it "spam".

6: Agree, don't have anything to add.

II: THE TWO (OK, MAYBE MORE THAN TWO) GUIDELINES

1: I agree with all of this. Especially pay attention to the first bullet point.

2: Sure, why not. Some folks might object, but I never saw this from their point of view. This forum is supposed to be kid-friendly, right?

3: This is what SHOULD be enforced in school. Sadly, it isn't.

4: Yeah. Agreed.

III: THE RETURN OF THE GUIDELINES

This isn't really what we're discussing, but keep it in mind.
Author:  IantheGecko [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:09 am ]
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I agree with Inverso's rules, even though I should be following them better. ^^;

But I'm not welcome back at SI; Jello told me himself.
Author:  Color Printer [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:12 am ]
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Even though I was gone for two days, had no freakin' clue what happened here at all, and barely understand what's wrong, I agree with some of the things said in this topic. More specifically, some of the rule revisings and guidelines.

I'm mostly on board with Inverse's though. *thumbs up*

Even though most of this doesn't apply to me, considering I'm not a mod.
Author:  For Reals Deals [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:14 am ]
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I really think every modmin should try to live by The Way Inverse Rolls. That is a revolutionary document, and should be treated as such. Ju Ju follows it, and he's a really good mod.

Einoo, ha ha, you said "enough pointless agreeing" and then essentially agreed with everything. But it's good to bring it to more attention.
Author:  Capt. Ido Nos [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:15 am ]
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Whoa, I leave for six hours and something big is on the rise. Ima have to read this once I get my homework done...

Guh, homework. *shaking fist emoticon that rammy always uses*

Meaningful input in an hour or so.
Author:  Einoo T. Spork [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:18 am ]
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For Reals Deals wrote:
I really think every modmin should try to live by The Way Inverse Rolls. That is a revolutionary document, and should be treated as such. Ju Ju follows it, and he's a really good mod.

Einoo, ha ha, you said "enough pointless agreeing" and then essentially agreed with everything. But it's good to bring it to more attention.


I know, man, I know, I got a bit lazy. But I commented on the stuff I thought merited comments, at least.

But yes. Revolutionary. Just like that Consti-tooshy thing. And that Bill of something or other. It might need a bit of reworking though.
Author:  For Reals Deals [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:22 am ]
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So true. I <3 Inverse forever.
Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:27 am ]
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Einoo T. Spork wrote:
Only suggestion I have is that an edit shouldn't be made without the modmin signing it, because apparently people don't like that.

There was a little discussion of this in the mod forum, and it was suggested that, especially if a global mod group is created, mods should always sign their edits so the offending user can ask for a larger explanation as to why exactly the edit was made.

Some of the things in IT's guide, while good as a personal reference, wouldn't make great global guidelines (plus a couple things are outdated). Here's some of my proposed guidelines:

1. Modmins are users first and modmins second.
2. Modmins will not be biased in their decisions. They will treat any user as they would treat any other user* and will not play favorites.
3. Modmins will listen to any to any warranted and civilly voiced concerns or criticisms any user might bring to them.
4. Modmins will do their best to involve the entire community in any decisions that would largely affect them or into which their input would be of use*.*

*I word it this way because "They will treat all users equally" could be misinterpreted as "Most users don't have warnings on rule-breakings, so I should treat this user as he does not either". For some reason I feel that wording takes out that ambiguity.

**Yes, this means bannings, because they only affect a single user, would not need to be discussed. The plan is to make warnings and bannings a much more structured system, and in most cases, that wouldn't leave much room for discussion.

These are just four I could think of, there are probably many more that could be added.
Author:  For Reals Deals [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:38 am ]
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It should be established that Modmins should not take any decision personally and look at anything from an official standpoint. I know 2 addresses that, but it seemed that you were only talking about users.
Author:  ramrod [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:41 am ]
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For Reals Deals wrote:
It should be established that Modmins should not take any decision personally and look at anything from an official standpoint. I know 2 addresses that, but it seemed that you were only talking about users.
I would like that to be officially included as well.
Author:  StrongRad [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:45 am ]
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For Reals Deals wrote:
It should be established that Modmins should not take any decision personally and look at anything from an official standpoint. I know 2 addresses that, but it seemed that you were only talking about users.

It should be noted that modmins ARE human and therefore might take something personally.
They should try NOT to, but realize that it can happen.
Users should ALSO try not to take requests to "cut it out" or "knock it off" personally.
Author:  For Reals Deals [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:47 am ]
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Moderating and Administrating a forum is not a personal job, Sree. You can't just ban or warn someone because of your opinion of them, is what I'm trying to say.
Author:  ramrod [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:49 am ]
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For Reals Deals wrote:
Moderating and Administrating a forum is not a personal job, Sree. You can't just ban or warn someone because of your opinion of them, is what I'm trying to say.
True, but what he is saying that sometimes we do make mistakes. We are human. When we say to knock something off, we expect that that stuff should be knocked off.
Author:  StrongRad [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:50 am ]
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For Reals Deals wrote:
Moderating and Administrating a forum is not a personal job, Sree. You can't just ban or warn someone because of your opinion of them, is what I'm trying to say.

True.

Nobody here does that (well, there was this one time I banned Ramrod for about 5 minutes.)

I don't disagree with what you said, however, it should be noted that we're humans. Pushing and pushing us will tend to drive us further from rational decisions. Admins and mods would have an infinitely easier job if users respected them (and vice versa).

By the way, what's the deal with this thread?
Why are people using different names?

Someone give me a non-biased executive summary of what's going on.

Do a good job and I'll give you a taco.
Author:  Duecex2 [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:54 am ]
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COLA and Rusty were banned, and are trying to get their points across with new accounts.
Author:  For Reals Deals [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:55 am ]
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I'm expecting Sree to know who I am. Myself and Cola (teff too) were banned. Rammy's allowing me and Cola to use dupe accounts to post in this topic only.

I'm definitely aware of all that stuff - part of this agreement is that the users respect the mods. But it is an equal respect - because Mods and Users should be treated as equals by each other.
Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:58 am ]
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For Reals Deals wrote:
I'm expecting Sree to know who I am. Myself and Cola (teff too) were banned. Rammy's allowing me and Cola to use dupe accounts to post in this topic only.

I'm definitely aware of all that stuff - part of this agreement is that the users respect the mods. But it is an equal respect - because Mods and Users should be treated as equals by each other.
actually I got my account back, so now its just you.

God I hate that name i chose.
Author:  For Reals Deals [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:59 am ]
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Sweet.
Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:59 am ]
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You better actually have a taco, 'cause now I want one.

Basically, an argument started up in RT about a couple things modmins were doing, namely not signing edits. Later, Rusty and COLA (and Teff, but he hasn't psoted here) were banned (for unrelated reasons) but there was still a lot of disagreement about modmin policies. Discussion started up at Serious Inc and ramrod went over there to help settle some stuff. They made some progress, and Ram asked COLA to post his ideas here (and Rusty, despite being banned, wanted to say his opinions as well).

That's the very brief summary of it. To tell you the truth, there's a lot I forget (like how the little argument in RT escalated to this)

EDIT: Gah, took me too long to write. Now I'll never get that taco...
Author:  ramrod [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:00 am ]
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What the users are asking for some input here on the forum. They want to have a say in the matters of the forum.

They also want to get rid, or at lease change rule 1.

They want a set of rules for the mods and admins (See inverse's guideline)

They want to freely breakdance without the man hassling them about it.

They want Nixon out of Vietnam.

They want some more mods.

They want You and I to be able to do what we need to do on the forum without asking Stu for permission.

What I propose is that we make edits to rule 1. You have already seen what I proposed for that.

We are in the search for new mods. We're working and searching every nook and granny for the best people.

For more input to the forum, the Suggestions board needs to be better utilized. If you have a problem with an user, please bring it up with a mod or admin.


Now where's my taco?
Author:  For Reals Deals [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:04 am ]
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We want a warning system.
Author:  Einoo T. Spork [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:07 am ]
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We want a rock to tie a piece of string around.
Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:10 am ]
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Let's try to get the string first. One thing at a time.
Author:  ramrod [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:11 am ]
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For Reals Deals wrote:
We want a warning system.
I think it;s been mentioned somewhere. Can anyone find it?
Author:  StrongRad [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:12 am ]
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For Reals Deals wrote:
We want a warning system.

Get a NOAA Weather Radio with S.A.M.E.

Here's a good one. Seriously you all should ask for that radio for Christmas (or get it for your folks).


Wait. What were we talking about?

I don't think rule one needs to be reworded. Perhaps the "code of conduct" or whatever for modmins should contain passages about using it, though.

I think rule one should be a catch-all used to fix things that the ordinary rules can't fix (but probably should be fixed). The rules should then be tweaked to reflect the rule 1 use.

Situation: User does highly offensive thing not caught in rules.
Admin deletes offensive thing (using rule 1).
Rules get fixed to catch offensive thing.

Or something like that. I like to compare it to a regulation we have in our air quality program.
Perhaps tomorrow I can explain it better. I'm really tired right now.
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