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 Post subject: Spam
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:40 pm 
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JoeyDay wrote:
3. NO SPAM.

Spam includes:

b. Writing posts without meaning.

d. Writing posts like "I agree" that do not contribute to the conversation.

The exact definition of spam is not limited to the above, and is to be determined by the admins and moderators.



Is this rule ever enforced? If not, I recommend we abolish it entirely.

I'm not trying to start a fight. I'd just like the mods to make a decision. Either

1. Agree with me and enforce the rule,

2. Disagree with me and tell me to go pound sand, or

3. Abolish the rule entirely.

I'll keep quiet and see what happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:25 pm 
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The way I see it, the rule is enforced, but it needs to be updated. Most of the posts could be called spam but they've become so common and there's no much of a problem with them. Now stuff like "D8VDYGSDTUOFHHTHG :pom: :bubs: :-( :kot: :sad: :sm: :sm: :sad: GJAGHJFAOHA, that's what I'd think spam would be.

But I'm not a mod.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:55 pm 
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Not to pick a fight or anything, I think you're missing the point of that last part of that rule.

JoeyDay wrote:
The exact definition of spam is not limited to the above, and is to be determined by the admins and moderators.


So, by that definition, then no, nothing needs to be done about updating the rules, since the admins and moderators can define it as they want.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:39 pm 
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STupendous7 wrote:
So, by that definition, then no, nothing needs to be done about updating the rules, since the admins and moderators can define it as they want.


^ I agree.

rules wrote:
d. Writing posts like "I agree" that do not contribute to the conversation.


OH CRAP-- *runs*

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:42 pm 
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Yes, it's enforced.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:49 pm 
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We do enforce rule 3. However, everyone's definition of spam is different - even among the modmins, we all have at least slightly different definitions of spam. Show an example post of what you mean.


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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:52 pm 
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Rusty wrote:
Mookoo wrote:
Okay Faceless, would you just listen to yourself? You are saying that those that have passed don't have a choice to do anything in heaven. Eh' what? So in your eyes, we die, and go to heaven where we sit around and do nothing?

Also, if you believe that baptisms for the dead do have an effect then why are you against it? The only way back to God is through baptism. So why would you have a problem with us helping them return to God?



I laughed.


There are tons of more examples exactly like this. If a user responds to a post only say "I agree," "I disagree," "you should die," "FACEPALM," or anything like that, they are adding nothing to the discussion, and therefore are spamming.

STupendous7 wrote:
Not to pick a fight or anything, I think you're missing the point of that last part of that rule.

JoeyDay wrote:
The exact definition of spam is not limited to the above, and is to be determined by the admins and moderators.


So, by that definition, then no, nothing needs to be done about updating the rules, since the admins and moderators can define it as they want.


It says the rule is not limited to the above. That means mods are required to take the above into account, but are not restricted to those things only their defining of spam.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:54 pm 
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Lol, how did I know you were gonna quote one of my posts?

But seriously, didn't see it coming, honestly

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:55 pm 
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Rusty wrote:
Lol, how did I know you were gonna quote one of my posts?

But seriously, didn't see it coming, honestly


Here's another one:

Rusty wrote:
MooKoo wrote:
this-guy wrote:
Who's Keith Olderman?

You don't even wanna' know.


Be quiet.


Technically, the above example is in Random Thoughts and Ideas, but it's another good example.

Seems Rusty has something of a crush on Mookoo.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:58 pm 
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Maybe you could just consider the fact that I don't agree with him on a lot of things?

What you just said about me and mookoo could be said for yourself - and you're demonstrating it in the exact same thread that you're accusing people of it.

Astonishing.

EDIT: By the way, I don't really have a huge problem with Mookoo - he's not a prick, like yourself, lahi.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:06 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
mods are required to take the above into account.

Rule 1 says otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:09 am 
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In my mind, most of the time, posts like "I agree" do contribute to the conversaton - it shows that not just one person holds that opinion. I'm all for the rule "Don't write posts that don't contribute to the conversation", but I don't think "I agree" is a good example of that. I'd be in favor of removing that small part from the rules.

Potates wrote:
lahimatoa wrote:
mods are required to take the above into account.

Rule 1 says otherwise.

True, we don't have to, but to be good modmins, we ought to. I've said many times in the mod forum - as long as it's a rule, we need to enforce it. We can change the rule, but whatever the rule is needs to be enforced. Otherwise, there's no point.


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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:12 am 
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Potates wrote:
lahimatoa wrote:
mods are required to take the above into account.

Rule 1 says otherwise.


Well shoot, let's just get rid of all the rules and let mods do whatever they feel like. That makes things simple. And I'm sure it's what Joey Day had in mind when he set up the forum.

Quote:
In my mind, most of the time, posts like "I agree" do contribute to the conversaton - it shows that not just one person holds that opinion. I'm all for the rule "Don't write posts that don't contribute to the conversation", but I don't think "I agree" is a good example of that. I'd be in favor of removing that small part from the rules.


Now we're getting somewhere. Thank you for making your opinion known.

Do you feel the same way about a poster responding with "stop talking now"?

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:14 am 
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Ju Ju Master wrote:
In my mind, most of the time, posts like "I agree" do contribute to the conversaton - it shows that not just one person holds that opinion. I'm all for the rule "Don't write posts that don't contribute to the conversation", but I don't think "I agree" is a good example of that. I'd be in favor of removing that small part from the rules.

Potates wrote:
lahimatoa wrote:
mods are required to take the above into account.

Rule 1 says otherwise.

True, we don't have to, but to be good modmins, we ought to. I've said many times in the mod forum - as long as it's a rule, we need to enforce it. We can change the rule, but whatever the rule is needs to be enforced. Otherwise, there's no point.

I tend to allow "I agree" if it's backed up. Most of the time, I'll even allow it if people aren't dog-piling on someone else. I consider dog-piling to be something like when a moderator tells someone to stop something then other people are all "yeah" or something like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:30 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
Potates wrote:
lahimatoa wrote:
mods are required to take the above into account.

Rule 1 says otherwise.


Well shoot, let's just get rid of all the rules and let mods do whatever they feel like. That makes things simple. And I'm sure it's what Joey Day had in mind when he set up the forum.

No need to get angry, Lahi.
Quote:
Quote:
In my mind, most of the time, posts like "I agree" do contribute to the conversaton - it shows that not just one person holds that opinion. I'm all for the rule "Don't write posts that don't contribute to the conversation", but I don't think "I agree" is a good example of that. I'd be in favor of removing that small part from the rules.


Now we're getting somewhere. Thank you for making your opinion known.

Do you feel the same way about a poster responding with "stop talking now"?

Honestly, people really should know better that to just say "lol kill ur slef" when they don't like what someone said. It's rude and obnoxious and though it may be just an empty insult, most people don't like being told to go play in traffic.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:02 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
Do you feel the same way about a poster responding with "stop talking now"?


IMO, sometimes it's a purely situational matter.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:22 am 
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Rusty wrote:
Lol, how did I know you were gonna quote one of my posts?

But seriously, didn't see it coming, honestly


Me neither. I was shocked to death. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:24 am 
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I guess that the modmins are quite lax with their definitions of spam, but that can be a good thing. I remember when people here started posting SI emoticons and image macros as standalone posts, and some of the admins and mods kept giving users warnings about them. However, nowadays, short messages and images make up a lot of the posts on the Forum, and if these things were to be changed, then the overall mood of this place would be changed with it.

I'd say that the rule could be revised some in the future, but it shouldn't be changed drastically. Most of it should simply fall under the interpretation of the admins and mods at the given moment though, since things like this can really be situational.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:51 am 
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Exactly. It all falls under how we choose to interpret it. Nearly everything that we run across is casework, and it's treated accordingly. This isn't a super active and huge place like other forums, so we can afford to be personal and deliberate with our actions. When people were first being warned with uses of image macros and SI emotes, that was largely in part because that was all they would post. Now, they're not used as frequently, and can be used to further a discussion even on the odd occasion, as opposed to backlogging everything with lolpears.

tl;dr version: We call it as we see it.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:25 pm 
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lahimatoa wrote:
Rusty wrote:
Mookoo wrote:
Okay Faceless, would you just listen to yourself? You are saying that those that have passed don't have a choice to do anything in heaven. Eh' what? So in your eyes, we die, and go to heaven where we sit around and do nothing?

Also, if you believe that baptisms for the dead do have an effect then why are you against it? The only way back to God is through baptism. So why would you have a problem with us helping them return to God?



I laughed.


There are tons of more examples exactly like this. If a user responds to a post only say "I agree," "I disagree," "you should die," "FACEPALM," or anything like that, they are adding nothing to the discussion, and therefore are spamming.

AGREE'd!

Posts that just say "you should die", "Facepalm", *Image of facepalm*, "kill yourself", "go play in traffic", etc. Are all immature, pointless, and just go to show how much of a d-bag you are.

"I agree" and "I disagree", are fine, as long as you back it up with a few words of why. In my opinion this would make for a better experience for all. Not so much negative nasty would be going around then.

Another thing I think that allows this stuff to happen is that Mods sometimes worry more about there rep as a User than as a Mod. Everyone isn't going to stop liking you just because you actually start to get rid of some of the pointless crap you guise.

MooKoo wrote:
Homerun Starrer wrote:
MooKoo wrote:
Atlas - Sparta

A Radiohead wanna' be, but they do a darn tootin' good job.


Yeah, because every progressive rock band is a Radiohead wannabe. :rolleyes:

I'm not a huge fan of Sparta, though. The Mars Volta (which was founded by a couple former bandmates of Sparta, actually) is way better, IMO.

No its because in my opinion a lot of their stuff sounds like some of Radioheads older stuff.

Homerun Starrer wrote:
Yeah, I guess you're right. They do seem pretty similar.


As you see here, we both expressed ourselves in a mature way. No hard feelings between us, this is what the forums could be. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:53 pm 
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Rusty wrote:
lahimatoa wrote:
Do you feel the same way about a poster responding with "stop talking now"?


IMO, sometimes it's a purely situational matter.

This.
Someone will say something completely ridiculous in an argument, that doesn't contribute either. When someone is incapable of stating a reasonable opinion, etcetera, then your instinctive reaction is to tell them to stop.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:13 am 
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Quote:
When someone is incapable of stating a reasonable opinion, etcetera, then your instinctive reaction is to tell them to stop.


The problem is, defining "reasonable opinion" is difficult. For example, I might think "Hillary is the best choice for president" is an unreasonable opinion. Someone else might not.

Responding to opinion with "go play in traffic" is just bad form.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:20 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
Quote:
When someone is incapable of stating a reasonable opinion, etcetera, then your instinctive reaction is to tell them to stop.


The problem is, defining "reasonable opinion" is difficult.

Something like "Abraham Lincoln is a bad president because his beard is unkempt," or "Abortion is bad because every time one takes place, God kills a kitten."
If an opinion is downright stupid and can't be related to anything in any way, it's worthy of a gtfo.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:25 am 
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Word Up wrote:
lahimatoa wrote:
Quote:
When someone is incapable of stating a reasonable opinion, etcetera, then your instinctive reaction is to tell them to stop.


The problem is, defining "reasonable opinion" is difficult.

Something like "Abraham Lincoln is a bad president because his beard is unkempt," or "Abortion is bad because every time one takes place, God kills a kitten."
If an opinion is downright stupid and can't be related to anything in any way, it's worthy of a gtfo.

Who defines "downright stupid"?
Oh, right. Rule 1 says I do.

The gtfo is pretty rude and not called for. A stupid post is worthy of refuting. If it's not worth your time, then really make it not worth your time and don't even respond to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:43 am 
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I don't even think we need this conversation. I think for the mods, the definition of spam is the same as that one chief justice guy's definition of pornography: They know it when they see it.

That's pretty much all there is to say.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:13 am 
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StrongRad wrote:
Who defines "downright stupid"?
Oh, right. Rule 1 says I do.

The gtfo is pretty rude and not called for. A stupid post is worthy of refuting. If it's not worth your time, then really make it not worth your time and don't even respond to it.

That's an issue you have more experience in, but we'll need to agree to disagree.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:32 am 
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In response to what lahi says about someone not having a really good reason, like something stupid like the kittens thing or just saying that Hilary what make the best president. Just ignore it. If you ignore it, it will eventually stop.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:33 am 
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MooKoo wrote:
In response to what lahi says about someone not having a really good reason, like something stupid like the kittens thing or just saying that Hilary what make the best president. Just ignore it. If you ignore it, it will eventually stop.


It won't.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:47 am 
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Rusty wrote:
MooKoo wrote:
In response to what lahi says about someone not having a really good reason, like something stupid like the kittens thing or just saying that Hilary what make the best president. Just ignore it. If you ignore it, it will eventually stop.


It won't.

I bet you were laughing your buttocks off in your comfy chair when you posted that.

For real dude, you need to grow up just a tad bit. It would be for the benefit of the entire forums.

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 Post subject: Re: Spam
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:56 am 
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No, he's right.
Ignoring it won't have an effect. People want their opinions to be heard. Letting someone know that you disagree is a good way to end it, or at least clean things up.

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