Is "nothing-ness" possible?

Did he sell eggs? · **Posted:** Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:36 pm

I had an argument with this kid at my school on wether "nothing" is a something possible. I mean absolutly nothing. I think it isn't, because in order to have nothing, there can't be any color. Color means there is something, even if it is "nothing." So what does "not-color" look like? You can't say nothing, because that just repeats the argument.

PianoManGidley · **Posted:** Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:53 pm

I would harbor a guess that no, it is not possible. Because once we had it, we'd have to call it nothing (or nothingness), which would give it a name. Once it had a name, it would have something and no longer be nothing. Also, even if we simply didn't label it, then it would still exist in a form of nonexistence, which is impossible.

Peter222 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:27 pm

I don't think it's possible.

Jimmie · **Posted:** Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:37 pm

i think it's possible, just in a way incomprehensible for us.

Sherlockrunner · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:04 am

PianoManGidley wrote:

I would harbor a guess that no, it is not possible. Because once we had it, we'd have to call it nothing (or nothingness), which would give it a name. Once it had a name, it would have something and no longer be nothing. Also, even if we simply didn't label it, then it would still exist in a form of nonexistence, which is impossible.

that hurt my head!

PianoManGidley · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:23 am

Sherlockrunner wrote:

PianoManGidley wrote:

I would harbor a guess that no, it is not possible. Because once we had it, we'd have to call it nothing (or nothingness), which would give it a name. Once it had a name, it would have something and no longer be nothing. Also, even if we simply didn't label it, then it would still exist in a form of nonexistence, which is impossible.

that hurt my head!

This is why Ancient Greece outlawed the use of the number zero. Well, that, and the fact that to embrace the concept of nothing would mean having to adversely accept the concept of infinity, which they refused to do, hinging on to the concept of a purely finite universe. This, of course, ultimately led to Zeno's Paradox, which asks how an arrow shot at a tree can ever reach the tree if it must first travel half the distance between it and the tree, then half the remaining distance, and so on and so forth. The Hindu culture, which readily embraced infinity at the time, had no qualms with using the number (and concept) of zero, which was brought to them by Alexander the Great--bringing it from a nation that refused to use it. Of course, this led to the answer to Zeno's Paradox, by realizing that as long as an infinite series of numbers approaches zero (i.e. the tree) it is possible to cancel out the infinite series and be left only with the absolute numbers--a solution which embraces both infinity and zero (nothingness).

Whoops...did I hear someone's head just explode?

Sherlockrunner · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:28 am

PianoManGidley wrote:

Sherlockrunner wrote:

PianoManGidley wrote:

I would harbor a guess that no, it is not possible. Because once we had it, we'd have to call it nothing (or nothingness), which would give it a name. Once it had a name, it would have something and no longer be nothing. Also, even if we simply didn't label it, then it would still exist in a form of nonexistence, which is impossible.

that hurt my head!

This is why Ancient Greece outlawed the use of the number zero. Well, that, and the fact that to embrace the concept of nothing would mean having to adversely accept the concept of infinity, which they refused to do, hinging on to the concept of a purely finite universe. This, of course, ultimately led to Zeno's Paradox, which asks how an arrow shot at a tree can ever reach the tree if it must first travel half the distance between it and the tree, then half the remaining distance, and so on and so forth. The Hindu culture, which readily embraced infinity at the time, had no qualms with using the number (and concept) of zero, which was brought to them by Alexander the Great--bringing it from a nation that refused to use it. Of course, this led to the answer to Zeno's Paradox, by realizing that as long as an infinite series of numbers approaches zero (i.e. the tree) it is possible to cancel out the infinite series and be left only with the absolute numbers

Whoops...did I hear someone's head just explode?

Now i have a migraine

Exhibit A · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:35 am

I think nothingness is very possible. If there is a point where there is no matter, and no energy, than what is there? Nothing. It's not as abstract as you may thing, it's just the complete absence of anything. As for what it would look like, it would be invisible. For example, if there was a room, and in an area in the center was somehow completely devoid of all matter and energy, if you looked at it, you would see the other side. If there was a whole realm of nothingness, you wouldn't be able to see anything. It would be total blackness. Black is not a really color, remember, black is the absence of color, just as white is all colors in one. That's why space is black, because there's nothing there, or at least nothing we can see, just minuscule bits of matter and energy.

DESTROY US ALL! · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:13 am

No, EDIT: THIRD, (sorry i didn't pay attention much in freshman science) law of thermodynamics says no system can reach absolute zero. And if there is energy, there is something.

Exhibit A · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:28 am

First of all, that's actually the third law, not the first. And I didn't mean that nothingness could ever truly be achieved, I just meant that the concept of nothingness is theoretically possible.

PianoManGidley · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:44 am

Exhibit A wrote:

I think nothingness is very possible. If there is a point where there is no matter, and no energy, than what is there? Nothing. It's not as abstract as you may thing, it's just the complete absence of anything. As for what it would look like, it would be invisible. For example, if there was a room, and in an area in the center was somehow completely devoid of all matter and energy, if you looked at it, you would see the other side. If there was a whole realm of nothingness, you wouldn't be able to see anything. It would be total blackness. Black is not a really color, remember, black is the absence of color, just as white is all colors in one. That's why space is black, because there's nothing there, or at least nothing we can see, just minuscule bits of matter and energy.

But that area of nothingness would take up some space, so space would be filled and remain in existence, meaning that something had to be filling it.

Cybernetic Teenybopper · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:46 am

What exists outside the universe?

Is there an outside?

An impossiblity might be nothing. Since recent science seems to suggest that space itself is a something, an empty devoid of space--an outside of the universe that is nothing--would be nothing.

Schmelen · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:54 am

I say yes.

Code J · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:27 am

I agree. I'm sure it's possible, but as previously mentioned, I think it's probably incomprehensible or near-incomprehensible to us. So I say yes.

Also, PianoManGidley, that was extremely informative AND interesting. 10 brownies! Ding!

ramrod · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:34 am

This whole thread has made my brain melt. I remember that this kid in one of my classes tried to teach me this stuff, and it ultimately just confused the crap out of me.

Sherlockrunner · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:47 pm

ramrod wrote:

This whole thread has made my brain melt. I remember that this kid in one of my classes tried to teach me this stuff, and it ultimately just confused the crap out of me.

was he like a know-it-all?

Did he sell eggs? · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:02 pm

Wow. I didn't know I would get such mind-exploding results. Sweeeeet.

Cybernetic Teenybopper · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:23 pm

Did he sell eggs? wrote:

Wow. I didn't know I would get such mind-exploding results. Sweeeeet.

I love the feeling of my brain exploding in the morning. :mrgreen:

No, seriously. I love thinking about this kind of crazy stuff.

Like, "Wha was there before the universe began?" All these nutty "pre-Bang" scenarios really get my neurons going crazy. I love it! This is my adrenaline rush.

...Which is kind of pathetic in its own way.

Did he sell eggs? · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:37 pm

Cybernetic Teenybopper wrote:

Did he sell eggs? wrote:

Wow. I didn't know I would get such mind-exploding results. Sweeeeet.

I love the feeling of my brain exploding in the morning. :mrgreen:

No, seriously. I love thinking about this kind of crazy stuff.

Like, "Wha was there before the universe began?" All these nutty "pre-Bang" scenarios really get my neurons going crazy. I love it! This is my adrenaline rush.

...Which is kind of pathetic in its own way.

Remind me to never talk to you about anything like this...

Jello B. · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:35 pm

Code J wrote:

Also, PianoManGidley, that was extremely informative AND interesting.

Mod parent up.

PianoManGidley · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:37 pm

Jello B. wrote:

Code J wrote:

Also, PianoManGidley, that was extremely informative AND interesting.

Mod parent up.

Umm...what? Forgive me, but what does "Mod parent up" mean?

Jello B. · **Posted:** Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:23 pm

On Slashdot, there's a feature where you can view posts only above a certain moderation level. Posts are moderated by users that have moderator points, and are usually modded things like 5, Funny, 2, Insightful, -1, Flamebait, stuff like that. When somebody says "mod parent up," they want the parent post (the one they replied to) to be modded up.

StrongSadSympathizer · **Posted:** Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:44 am

PianoManGidley wrote:

Sherlockrunner wrote:

PianoManGidley wrote:

I would harbor a guess that no, it is not possible. Because once we had it, we'd have to call it nothing (or nothingness), which would give it a name. Once it had a name, it would have something and no longer be nothing. Also, even if we simply didn't label it, then it would still exist in a form of nonexistence, which is impossible.

that hurt my head!

This is why Ancient Greece outlawed the use of the number zero. Well, that, and the fact that to embrace the concept of nothing would mean having to adversely accept the concept of infinity, which they refused to do, hinging on to the concept of a purely finite universe. This, of course, ultimately led to Zeno's Paradox, which asks how an arrow shot at a tree can ever reach the tree if it must first travel half the distance between it and the tree, then half the remaining distance, and so on and so forth. The Hindu culture, which readily embraced infinity at the time, had no qualms with using the number (and concept) of zero, which was brought to them by Alexander the Great--bringing it from a nation that refused to use it. Of course, this led to the answer to Zeno's Paradox, by realizing that as long as an infinite series of numbers approaches zero (i.e. the tree) it is possible to cancel out the infinite series and be left only with the absolute numbers--a solution which embraces both infinity and zero (nothingness).

Whoops...did I hear someone's head just explode?

Sorry that was my head. Ouch.

The Joe · **Posted:** Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:53 am

What about the space between atoms? The space between energy? The outside of the universe? Joe is not in a philisophical mood today, so Joe will not write three paragraphs.

Wesstarrunner · **Posted:** Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:04 am

Huh? Why do people think about incomprehensible stuff like this. It's like asking "How am I me?" It gives me a creepy feeling. I don't know and really don't care.

Did he sell eggs? · **Posted:** Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:31 am

The Joe wrote:

What about the space between atoms? The space between energy? The outside of the universe? Joe is not in a philisophical mood today, so Joe will not write three paragraphs.

Thats good. Enough heads have exploded already.

Jimmie · **Posted:** Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:06 am

*MY HEAD A SPLODE!*

Sorry.

PianoManGidley · **Posted:** Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:02 am

The Joe wrote:

What about the space between atoms?

Probably more apt a question would be "What about the space between the components of atoms?" since we're told that an electron is a considerable distance from the nucleus of the atom around which it encompasses.

Indigo Kitsune · **Posted:** Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:06 am

Yeah, I think nothing-ness is possible.

Because without 'nothing', how can you have 'something'?

DarkSideOfTheSchwartz · **Posted:** Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:04 pm

Indigo Kitsune wrote:

Yeah, I think nothing-ness is possible.

Because without 'nothing', how can you have 'something'?

wow, those are some very wise words. Someone shoud sig that, but not me, because I'm happy with the quote in my sig. I might even make a picture for it. But anyways... (self toastpaints) yes, nothingness is possible, but only in space and far beyond where the universe has expanded. out there, it is a limitless void, there are no objects, no light, no electromagnetic waves at all. It is completely empty. If that isn't nothingness, than what is it?

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