Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

If you're not willing to believe that God is the only God (one of the central tenets of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, I think), then what kind of Christian, Muslim (possibly Jew) are you? Not a very good one.

People believe what they believe, and people telling them that they should believe otherwise are no better..

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

But this(if you're replying to my last message) isn't about Christianity or Judaism or whichever in specific.

I guess this is the thread to expand on my Jelloist beliefs.

First and foremost, Jesus rocks. He's just pure awesome. His teachings were great, and the world may have been saved because of them. If you don't think Jesus's teachings were great, then I feel sorry. They will help you in life, and guide you along.

But I also do not believe in God, at least as portrayed in the Bible. Obviously, the Bible was written by man, therefore it has flaws. Christianity became popular not only because of the teachings, but because of how useful it was to the government back in the day. In the middle ages, they used the Bible to control the peasants and their beliefs. They changed it to fit their needs, and it became skewed. This is the version we use today

Walking on water, healing people by dunking them in water, etc. etc. didn't happen.

Obviously, I have been questioning my beliefs lately, because of how many flaws in this post. Yes, I know they are there. Christians can rest, because I used to be a stone cold Atheist. A no God, nothing after death, "Jesus who?" guy. But I will never be a christian. I know that much.

By the way, I was never really exposed to Christianity by family or parents. My mom's beliefs are nuts, she's one of those "Spiritual" people whose beliefs just don't make sense. I have no idea what my dad's are, he's made his own beliefs. He was raised by a very strong Mormon family, but became his own. I know he thinks Jesus is awesome, though.

These are only my beliefs, though. I hereby proclaim that I am not saying any of this is fact, only opinion.

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I wouldn't be arguing with you right now.


I'm not just taking bits and pieces of the Christian religion and saying I believe in them, you know. You seem to think that I change my basic outlook on a regular basis. I don't really know anything about paganism, but I'm wondering if you know anything about Christianity.


They showed me church. Church has pretty much taught me everything that I argue, with the help of the Bible.


And if you don't believe in heaven, Hell, or sin, that's your opinion. Just because you claim to be the voice of whatever you believe in, it doesn't really mean you can tell me what heaven really is, like you did earlier.


I didn't, actually. Where did you find this information?


And why not, exactly? If something doesn't make sense and makes me feel uncomfortable, that's sure as hell what I do.[/quote]
We're not the same religion, you know. I'm not as easily changed as you.


But it's your beliefs, and not something that's regarded as truth. Your idea doesn't coincide with everyone else's, so once again, you can't exactly tell me what heaven is.


Right you are. That's why the Bible is interpreted in so many different ways, and why there are so many denominations of Christianity. To get into heaven, you must truly trust and believe in the one God, and allow Him into your heart. That's the thing all churches agree on.


Why do parents "pass on" their personal beliefs? They want their kids to enter heaven too, in the case of Christianity. I'm pretty sure that nine times out of ten, an atheist family just won't say anything about religion.


People should, but they aren't. And your claim that parental influence causes pain is completely untrue, unless some parent beats his kid for not wanting to go to church (or for wanting to go to church).


But Ju Ju, just because some people don't believe in science doesn't mean all Christians don't believe in science.. Most of the time, one person never speaks for the whole. Unless it's the President.

EDIT: Jello B.- why, exactly, will you never consider Christianity? What do you have against it? (Although I agree that Jesus rocks.)

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Ahh, but it is not that I won't contemplate Christianity, it's that there are too many conflicts between it, my personal beliefs, and morals.

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Yes, but how many parents teach their kids from birth that God does not exist? Very few, I'd wager.

What difference will raising kids Christian make in the long run? If they don't believe in it, then they're going to quit the religion anyway.

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"You get the Most Annoying Transsexual I've Ever Spoken To award." -The Zephyr Song

But that's no different from one of my friends trying to force their beliefs on me. None at all. Just because they're your kids doesn't make them your property.



Exactly. Though then again, I don't trust the spagetti monster atheists. Atheism has really been taken a very unfortunately smug turn for the worst, lately.



This is true to an extent, but people do often simply not give it a second thought. But this is still forcing your beliefs on someone. Because you are cared for by parents, you're suddenly their property and don't have rights. I really hate that. I know being a parent is tough, but if you're not going to respect your child as an individual, you shouldn't have kids at all.

Sure. Because it's perfectly legal to throw your kid out the door and onto the street as soon as you get it home from the hospital. After all, they're not your property.


Y'know what? I, for one, would much rather be cared for by my parents and go to church every Sunday then be left to fend for myself every moment of my life. Who needs parents caring for you, anyway? It's not like they should love you or anything. They're not the reason you exist. Of course not.

Rosalie, what you're basically saying is that parents' job in life is to feed their kids and give them shelter. Think for a second. No parent is expected to "treat their child as an individual" if the kid is three years old and too young to be left alone while his parents are at church.

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Here's the thrust of this argument. People should raise their kids the way they want to, but they should also leave all options open to the kid, so that when that kid reaches an age where he can think for himself and formulate his own opinions, he can make up his own mind about religion.

Take me, for example. I was raised Catholic, but not by a particularly devout family. We go to church every week and go to confession about every six months, but I was never told that Catholicism is the ONLY way to go. I reached the decision that Catholicism was the best way for me to go on my own.

Some degree of a kid's religious life should be influenced by the parents, but the big decisions should be left to the kid.

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beep beep I'm a Jeep

My beliefs are almost identical to yours. I call myself a "nothing", in that I am spiritual but not religious. At all. I don't subscribe to any organized religion, because I just don't have the time or desire to do so. I believe in God, and I believe that a dude named Jesus existed, and was one rocking fella. I just doubt whether he had magical abilities, to walk on water, and heal, and all that jazz.

I'm also a firm believer in fate; that things happen for a reason. I'm toying with whether or not I believe in predestination or not. Right now, I do.

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-Krista

Not particularly sure, but that sounds a lot like Judaism to me. Or at least weak Judaism.

Dunno. Good to see you believe in God, though.

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Wow, with my vote that makes 3. I'm "saved" in many people's eyes but that was a while ago, I believe in God but I'm not too happy with his fan club. All of them tell me to do this and don't do that, if I ever become a really religous person it'll be under my own right and not with a church.

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RIP Nathan "Buz" Buzdor

Did you pay attention to a thing you said?

Purely because parents provide for you does not give them the right to force things on you. What are you going to do without parents, live on the street? No. Parents should have children because they wanted children, not vessels to put their beliefs into.

If they're not prepared to offer their children shelter without attempting to force them into things which don't make sense, they shouldn't have kid.

Children don't have enough rights. That's not the say that there aren't just as many unruly kids I'd smack, but that's a seperate issue. I've seen so much terrible crap done to parents

Oh, and one TS friend of mine did end up on the streets because of her parents. You think this is a fair trade off? Because she couldn't do what has been proven to be pyschologically impossible, "fight" her transgenderism, she ended up on the streets.

So please, don't bring that up "The streets" again.

Did you pay attention to a thing you said? Throughout all of these past posts, you've implied that parents should have nothing to do with bringing their kids up. They can't take their kids to church, can't teach them anything about religion, they can't do anything without their kids' permission. Ever hear of parents' rights? Obviously, I agree that religion shouldn't be forced onto kids; that kids should have a right to pick their own religion but only if they want to. If I went downstairs right now and said "Mom, Dad, I'm an atheist", they'd probably be rather sad, but wouldn't stand in my way. Bringing your freaking kids up in the religion you were raised up in in NO WAY means that you are forcing your beliefs onto your children.

Earlier you said "parents should respect their child as an individual, or not bother having kids". I agree that a teenager should have a right to choose whether or not to go to church- but if their parents force them to go, it is in their rights and completely moral. Christian parents usually don't want their kids to end up in Hell. I wouldn't want my kids to. So if I bring my child to church every Sunday until he's sixteen and able to come for himself, am I forcing my beliefs on him? I suppose. But does he have to take them in?

Please think logically. Parents bringing their kids up to be a Christian isn't forcing them to be a Christian. Bringing their kids to church, even if the kids don't want to, probably is. But once again, the kids have no reason to take any of it in.

If you're going to let your kids run rampant, not caring about what they think or feel at all, then you deserve to have them end up on the streets.

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Bringing them up Christian and not presenting alternatives is instilling a sense of values you wouldn't do if they weren't your children.

"Bringing" your child to mass sounds innocent enough, what if he decides he doesn't want to go at some point? What do you do? Tell him to cop on and get dressed? That's what I've seen 90% of the time with christian families where I live, and seemed to be the way a lot worked in the U.S. while I was over there.

And I think you have a lot of nerve saying some of that after my friend was thrown out on the street because of the very values you're promoting. Show some level of respect please.

1. It's not like any child wouldn't learn about alternatives in today's world. History class, the Internet... the possibilities are many. You said yourself that you stumbled upon a pagan website in a search for "truth". I don't know how your parents raised you, but they could just as easily be dragging you to church every Sunday and still have you turn out a pagan.

2. And no, if a non-Christian child somehow came into my care, I would definitely do everything in my power to install a sense of godly values. Quid pro quo.


As I said before, most Christian families will take their kids to church anyway, even if they don't want to go. But also as I said before, the kids don't have to learn anything. That's the major flaw in your argument: it's not exactly forcing your beliefs if the kid doesn't care enough to absorb anything.

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Or maybe not - you don't really know. While I believe everyone has their own true calling, I still recognise the human capability to interfere with that.

I was originally a Christian by my own choice, out of interest, until I had more and more troubles with why I made that decision.



Install? I'm guessing you meant instill, which is like TOTALLY not forcing.



That's rubbish. You can't force them to learn anything only because it's not possible to get inside their heads. They're still *trying* to force them to learn.

If the kid doesn't bother enough to pay attention in History class, then he obviously doesn't deserve to know anything than what his parents taught him. If I didn't feel that God existed, I wouldn't be listening to the sermons in church, I'd be picking them apart piece by piece and presenting an argument. When I finally thought about what I was doing, I still decided that Christianity was the way to go (after a little debate). I could just have easily decided to follow Buddha instead, and simply not pay attention in church. That's my point. Parents taking you to church doesn't automatically turn you into a Christian. It's your own beliefs that do that.


Example?


...yes, I did mean instill. Which means "to introduce by gradual, persistent efforts". I would be about as persistent as you can get.


But if they're not learning, then obviously the parents' efforts have done nothing. How can you still call that forcing beliefs if the child doesn't accept the belief?

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That's a joke - how is american history going to help?



But how does that give them the right to make someone uncomfortable by persisting with beliefs they don't agree with?



Interesting, but you left out the third phrase dictionary.com lists, which is "Implant". Instilling beliefs in someone is never a good thing. Introducing someone to them, maybe, but instilling goes deeper than that, it is about implanting ideas.



That's the most insane thing you've said yet. The outcome has absolutely no bearing on the original intent, whatsoever. If I try to stab you and end up tripping up an orphan killer instead, my intentions were still malign.
Because it doesn't usually work, it's right? So you're all for ex-gay therapy then?

If you can't understand this, then quite frankly, you're beyond help.

WHERE IS DIDYMUS WHEN WE NEED HIM?!

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Look, you can't argue from a religious point of view on this. Didymus is the last thing we need in this thread, I'm afraid, if you're expecting him for the reasons I think you are.

I am hoping somebody would come and return R&P back to normal. I prefer Dids, because of his knowledge, but I will take just about anyone.

TOASTPAINT!

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But Didymus' knowledge appears to lie mostly in the religious category, which is the last thing you need in an argument like this.

I'm trying to argue from a moral standing point abstract from any specific religion.

I don't think bible quotes as to how fake and evil my gods are will help anything.

Is "Back to Normal" by any chance the conservative types on top with the liberals nice in their place below you? I'm sorry, but it's the feeling I'm getting.

Actually, if you look at the title of this thread, it seems that religious knowledge is EXACTLY what's needed.
Of course, since Didymus is a christian, you're going to label him as a bigot and tell us all how much better you are than him since you don't try to force your beliefs down our throats..

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

I never labelled him a bigot, once.

Wow. It shows what an insanely itchy trigger finger you have towards anyone who dare suggest there be such a thing as discrimination.

The current direction of this topic - which might I ad, is perfectly "On topic" and a natural evolution of the subject matter, is parents raising their kids into their religion.

"Religious Knowledge"... he has Christian Knowledge. Big difference there. Someone with "Religious Knowledge", would be someone that is more neutral, quite possibly a theogolist(I personally am not one, but am in love with their belief system nonetheless). Though I am actually somewhat theogloist in my nature, and accept some aspects of Christianity and other religions into my beliefs that others wouldn't. Technically speaking, I'm probably one of the least religiously biased people here.

Yes, I admit I do have an itchy trigger finger towards that topic. That mainly comes because of how people are so quick to call bigotry and/or discrimination on anyone who disagrees with them.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

It depends on your definition of "Disagree".

If someone disagrees with me, I don't give a toss. If they act on it, or support my rights being removed because of it, I do.

Well, from what I gather, you don't live in Texas, so it doesn't seem to me that your rights are being removed here.

Besides, marriage is just a piece of paper, if two people love one another, nothing invalidates that.
whoops, wrong thread

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Personally, I wouldn't give much attention to someone's religious knowledge if he or she wasn't actively following a particular religion. It would be like saying, "I don't trust a doctor who actually practices medicine, only one who studies theory." Only someone who truly follows a particular religion is going to be qualified to offer any insight into that religion. Someone who does not follow a particular religion is lacking one very important thing: experience.

But as has been stated in this forum numerous places, all religions are to some degree exclusivistic. The very fact that I follow Christ means that I am not a follower of Buddha, and the same works the other way around, too.

But I would challenge you not to discount my knowledge of other religions. I studied world religions both in college and in seminary. I am fairly familiar with Islam, Judaism, Hindu, Shinto, and Tao. But I am a follower of Christ because I am convinced that he was right when he said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes unto God except by me."

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THANK YOU! Hopefully this will put an end to this argument between Rosalie and the rest of us (Just kidding Rose, you have the right Ideas, you just express them...prominantly)

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