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Which was he?
Hero 63%  63%  [ 20 ]
Tyrant 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
he waz a gewd man, i lyke hiz hat lol 31%  31%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 32
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 Post subject: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:22 pm 
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Abraham Lincoln had quite a time while in office.
He is best known for freeing slaves and being president of the Union during the Civil War.
However, historians in the South are beginning to "expose" Abraham Lincoln for being a tyrant, taking slaves from the Confederacy and not caring about states' rights or the Constitution.
So, which do you say he is?
I'm going to say he's a hero. He freed the slaves in Confederate territories, while trying to preserve the Union. The Emancipation Proclamation was a brilliant strategy which also brought freedom to slaves in the South.
What do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:24 pm 
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His hat was awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:43 pm 
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I'm going to go with hero, but it's pretty close and I thought about it for a long time. I mean, he removed a lot of rights and is a pretty big reason we don't have as many Constitutional liberties today, though it probably would have taken a lot longer for slaves to get freed if it weren't for him. I definitely have a lesser opinion of him than most, however.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:25 pm 
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Hero. Boo-hoo, some old white dudes are bitter that "all thems darkies aren't mowing mah lawn".

(note directed to all you guys in the south. just the racists.)

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:43 pm 
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The Noid wrote:
Hero. Boo-hoo, some old white dudes are bitter that "all thems darkies aren't mowing mah lawn".

(note directed to all you guys in the south. just the racists.)


Yeah, pretty much this.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:54 pm 
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The Noid wrote:
Hero. Boo-hoo, some old white dudes are bitter that "all thems darkies aren't mowing mah lawn".

(note directed to all you guys in the south. just the racists.)
If you paid any attention to the original post or mine whatsoever you would know that this isn't the reason people are upset with Lincoln.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:00 am 
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Who says he can't be both?

Granted I'm not that knowledgeable about American history, but didn't pretty much every war the US has been in involved the president going against the Constitution? Except for the Revolution, of course, since there wasn't any Constitution to break. Heck, the system the US government is based on, the Roman Republic, had it set up so that an absolute leader could be chosen in times of emergency. Of course that sort of system can go horribly wrong.

Anyways, I say a bit of a tyrant, but a justified one. And definitely a hero.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:16 am 
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Hero.

Are you kidding me? He helped Pen defeat the Ice King.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:33 am 
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Quote:
If you paid any attention to the original post or mine whatsoever you would know that this isn't the reason people are upset with Lincoln.


I did pay attention to both of them. To me it just seems these are some grumpy old guys. Who cares if he owned slaves. Even if he did, did he treat them with respect? I doubt he had them on a private field all day (if he did have any, which I think evidence shows that he did but I could be thinking of somebody else). The most important thing is that he freed the slaves and helped our nation through some tough times.

etc. etc you're probably gonna come up with some argument against picking at a fragment of that paragraph cause more then likely there's something to pick at.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:43 am 
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Th..that's not my beef with Lincoln at all, it's just things he actually did that were largely unrelated to slavery and how he restricted free speech somewhat to silence dissent against the war.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:55 am 
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Well, was that necessary?

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:57 am 
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Somewhat. You have to realize I'm on the fence about this issue, and I did eventually side with "hero", it's just that some things he did were pretty questionable though I don't want to do any research right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:56 am 
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I chose the last option, because it's hilariously absurd.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:04 am 
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Dear South,

It's been 143 years since you lost the Civil War, get over it. You lost, your way of life was wrong(AND IT STILL IS) and Lincoln was a hero.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:24 am 
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Protip : The Emancipation Proclamation did nothing. It was only if effect for those states still in the rebellion, not the border states with slavery that stayed loyal to the Union. This was mostly for show to gain support from Anti-Slavery France and England, who the South was trying to court.


During the Civil War, Lincoln appropriated powers no previous President had wielded: he used his war powers to proclaim a blockade, suspended the writ of habeas corpus, spent money without congressional authorization, and imprisoned 18,000 suspected Confederate sympathizers without trial.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:00 am 
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Quote:
Th..that's not my beef with Lincoln at all, it's just things he actually did that were largely unrelated to slavery and how he restricted free speech somewhat to silence dissent against the war.


I can tell you're not a bitter racist, but the fact that they were Southern historians just makes it seem to me that they're bitter racists. If it was Northern I might read into it more, but eh.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:20 am 
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The Noid wrote:
Quote:
Th..that's not my beef with Lincoln at all, it's just things he actually did that were largely unrelated to slavery and how he restricted free speech somewhat to silence dissent against the war.


I can tell you're not a bitter racist, but the fact that they were Southern historians just makes it seem to me that they're bitter racists. If it was Northern I might read into it more, but eh.

Southern = racist?

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:15 pm 
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Well, back then...yeah

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:56 pm 
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Just a note: The majority of whites in the South did not, in fact, own slaves. As previously stated, the Emancipation Proclamation did nothing to free anyone, it just was used to get the British on the side of the North. Lincoln himself was a racist and didn't think blacks should be equal to whites at all, shouldn't vote, etc.

So imma gonna go with the last one. It looks shiny.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:07 pm 
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Quote:
Southern = racist?


No no no. Not at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:40 pm 
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The Noid wrote:
Quote:
Southern = racist?


No no no. Not at all.

My bad.
Your post just kinda read like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:52 pm 
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You do have to admit, though, that it is more likely you'll encounter open racism/Civil War bitterness from southerners. Not that all of them are like that, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:36 pm 
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Jitka wrote:
You do have to admit, though, that it is more likely you'll encounter open racism/Civil War bitterness from southerners. Not that all of them are like that, of course.

In my experience of the South, in the Black belt, I knew more black racists than white ones. And next to none in the North. (I be agreeing with ye here, Jack.)

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:24 pm 
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StrongRad wrote:
The Noid wrote:
Quote:
Southern = racist?


No no no. Not at all.

My bad.
Your post just kinda read like that.


Um, it did read like that.

Quote:
I can tell you're not a bitter racist, but the fact that they were Southern historians just makes it seem to me that they're bitter racists. If it was Northern I might read into it more, but eh.


How does this mean anything other than "Southern historians = bitter racists, Northern historians = fair and balanced"?

And more on topic, Lincoln did what he had to do. If he were president today he'd be crucified by the opposing political party and CNN for destroying civil liberties and making us EXACTLY LIKE Nazi Germany.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:57 pm 
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Quote:
How does this mean anything other than "Southern historians = bitter racists, Northern historians = fair and balanced"?


It's an opinion that doesn't hold up well in argument. It might make me look like an idiot, but it's better than me trying to come up with a half-butted argument on what I feel that's not even true.

And that's also not true.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:00 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:

Um, it did read like that.

Quote:
I can tell you're not a bitter racist, but the fact that they were Southern historians just makes it seem to me that they're bitter racists. If it was Northern I might read into it more, but eh.


How does this mean anything other than "Southern historians = bitter racists, Northern historians = fair and balanced"?



Could you please get over yourself?

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:02 am 
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Rusty wrote:
lahimatoa wrote:

Um, it did read like that.

Quote:
I can tell you're not a bitter racist, but the fact that they were Southern historians just makes it seem to me that they're bitter racists. If it was Northern I might read into it more, but eh.


How does this mean anything other than "Southern historians = bitter racists, Northern historians = fair and balanced"?



Could you please get over yourself?


I second this.
I mean, honestly, this debate had ended awhile ago with no particular hard feelings - There's no need to KEEP. DIGGING.

but ok, i guess some people like that

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:32 am 
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Rusty wrote:
lahimatoa wrote:

Um, it did read like that.

Quote:
I can tell you're not a bitter racist, but the fact that they were Southern historians just makes it seem to me that they're bitter racists. If it was Northern I might read into it more, but eh.


How does this mean anything other than "Southern historians = bitter racists, Northern historians = fair and balanced"?



Could you please get over yourself?

The same could be said for you.
Add to the debate or leave.
Quit trying to bait Lahi.
...and yes, that WAS what you were doing there.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:43 am 
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do you always stick up for him or is it just these two times?

...And no, it wasn't. Don't assume crap like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Lincoln: Hero or Tyrant?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:06 am 
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Now I am NOT sticking up for Lahi, but I think there's been a bit of trolling on all sides here. Can we just move along please?

The last thing this forum needs now is needless enmity and DRAMA. Even in R&P, drama's never been good for forum morale. Those of us who were here for the Rosalie days can attest to that.

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