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 Post subject: Happy Birthday, Guantanamo Bay!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:50 pm 
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The Guantanamo Bay detainment centre is five-years-old today. And to date there has been a grand total of zero trials, and only ten that have been charged with anything.

The 10-year-old son of a Guantanamo detainee, Anas el-Banna, was in Downing Street today to plead with the UK government to bring his father home. Here's a letter that he wrote to Tony Blair a year ago (taken from the London Independent):

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Jamil, his dad, was arrested in Gambia for having a "suspicious device" in his possession. It turned out to be a mundane battery charger.

He suffers from extreme diabetes, but his lawyers say that he has not been given any mediation or the right food. Reportedly, his eyesight is suffering as a result

So, any Happy Birthday shout-outs?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:20 pm 
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Zero convictions, zero trials........ and zero replies. Quite hilarious.

Lordy, I knew apathy of this issue was getting bad, but I didn't think it was this bad. :(


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:42 pm 
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I'm not sure appalled quite fits it for me. I have no problem with harsh, maybe even inhumane treatment for anyone related to terrorism, but I really wish there would be charges filed and trials held.
There's no doubt in my mind that a large portion of the detainees at Gitmo are guilty of the things they're accused of, but I'm sure that there might be some who are victims of circumstances.

Of course, just because his lawyer and his kid say he's innocent doesn't make it so.

I'd like to see some trials held, just to be sure.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:52 pm 
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StrongRad wrote:
There's no doubt in my mind that a large portion of the detainees at Gitmo are guilty of the things they're accused of


How are you so sure about that? Fun fact: According to this, 95% of the detainees were not captured by the US, but were sold to America by Pakistani and Afghan authorities. Excuse me if I don't trust that arrangement.

StrawRaw wrote:
Of course, just because his lawyer and his kid say he's innocent doesn't make it so.


It's not just his lawyer and his kid. Refer to all-knowing Wikipedia:

Quote:
British authorities determined that the device [that he was arrested for possessing] was not modified, but was just what Basher said it was, a mundane battery charger.


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EDIT:
Magna Carta wrote:
Well, I think the cause for the no-replies on this topic is because no one really knows how to respond to something like this. I sure don't, and I'm appalled by this.


(Almost missed this one.) I can appreciate that, Magna. And after five years, it seems everyone'd just be saying the same things over and over. But I think it's important to talk about it. We haven't any answers yet after five years, but that doesn't mean we should give up asking the questions.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:08 am 
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Hey, John McCain said if he were elected President the very first thing he'd do is close Gitmo.

So be sure to support him with your vote, WHF.

Oh wait, you don't have a vote since you aren't American. I forget sometimes because of your obsession with us.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:10 am 
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People can't help being obsessed with us when we assert our interests all over the globe in ways that affect everyone...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:11 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
Hey, John McCain said if he were elected President the very first thing he'd do is close Gitmo.

So be sure to support him with your vote, WHF.

Oh wait, you don't have a vote since you aren't American. I forget sometimes because of your obsession with us.


Geez, dude. I think you mean well, but the way you word posts comes out as rather venomous sometimes.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:14 am 
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StrongRad wrote:
Geez, dude. I think you mean well, but the way you word posts comes out as rather venomous sometimes.
He can't help that, his father was a rattlesnake.


I think John McCain has the right idea. He knows more than anyone else what a prison camp is like.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:18 am 
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Beyond the Grave wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
Geez, dude. I think you mean well, but the way you word posts comes out as rather venomous sometimes.
He can't help that, his father was a rattlesnake.


I think John McCain has the right idea. He knows more than anyone else what a prison camp is like.


I don't like the idea of just outright closing the place and sending everyone back any more than I like the idea of them being held without trial.

If they're there, charge them with something and try them. If you can't charge them, don't hold them..

Jeez, why don't people just put me in charge of things.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:20 am 
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StrongRad wrote:
Jeez, why don't people just put me in charge of things.
Because you have intelligence and there is no place in government for that.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:07 am 
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lahimatoa pretty much wrote:
LOL U SHUD VOAT 4 MACCAIN O NO WAYT U CANT UR NUT AMERAKAN LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


Whoa - someone call Time or Newsweek or something. An argument of this depth and intelligence needs to be published to change perceptions and challenge viewpoints the whole world over.

Uh yuh. Since when was Guantanamo Bay an Americans-only affair?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:13 pm 
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OK, OK. enough please. No more flames between you two, or anyone else. I'm about half ready to lock this thread if this keeps going on. Lahi, please think before posting, because Rad's right, you sounded like a real jerk there. WHF, be the bigger man...er..woman and just ignore him. That's what I do.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:01 pm 
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Okay, regarding Guantanamo Bay....

1. I agree that holding people without formal charges sucks. That should be stopped.

2. The perception of what's going on at Guantanamo is way off. No one's using thumbscrews on the prisoners. No one's getting their eyes gouged out. No one's having hot pokers shoved up their... you know.

Time Magazine got its hands on an interrogation log of what goes on at Gitmo.

-The detainee's physical condition is frequently checked by medical corpsmen sometimes as often as three times a day which indicates either spectacular concern about al-Qahtani s health or persistent worry about just how much stress he can take.

-...the interrogators could use stress strategies like standing for prolonged periods, isolation for as long as 30 days, removal of clothing, forced shaving of facial hair, playing on individual phobias (such as dogs) and mild, non-injurious physical contact such as grabbing, poking in the chest with the finger and light pushing.

-Techniques Rumsfeld balked at included use of a wet towel or dripping water to induce the misperception of suffocation.

-...the log shows that interrogators poured bottles of water on al-Qahtani's head when he refused to drink. Interrogators called this game Drink Water or Wear It.

-The quizzing now starts at midnight, and when Detainee 063 dozes off, interrogators rouse him by dripping water on his head or playing Christina Aguilera music.

-According to the log, his handlers at one point perform a puppet show satirizing the detainee's involvement with al-Qaeda.

You get the idea. These are definitely measures to get someone to talk, but compared to what North Korea or China or Russia does on a regular basis, we're treating the detainees with kid gloves.

Which brings me to my last point: why is everyone up in arms over what goes on a Guantanamo Bay but the true torture that goes on in other countries is virtually ignored? People actually die in North Korea, and for crimes like being politically opposed to the regime.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:25 pm 
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lahimatoa wrote:
Okay, regarding Guantanamo Bay....

1. I agree that holding people without formal charges sucks. That should be stopped.

2. The perception of what's going on at Guantanamo is way off. No one's using thumbscrews on the prisoners. No one's getting their eyes gouged out. No one's having hot pokers shoved up their... you know.

Time Magazine got its hands on an interrogation log of what goes on at Gitmo.

-The detainee's physical condition is frequently checked by medical corpsmen sometimes as often as three times a day which indicates either spectacular concern about al-Qahtani s health or persistent worry about just how much stress he can take.

-...the interrogators could use stress strategies like standing for prolonged periods, isolation for as long as 30 days, removal of clothing, forced shaving of facial hair, playing on individual phobias (such as dogs) and mild, non-injurious physical contact such as grabbing, poking in the chest with the finger and light pushing.

-Techniques Rumsfeld balked at included use of a wet towel or dripping water to induce the misperception of suffocation.

-...the log shows that interrogators poured bottles of water on al-Qahtani's head when he refused to drink. Interrogators called this game Drink Water or Wear It.

-The quizzing now starts at midnight, and when Detainee 063 dozes off, interrogators rouse him by dripping water on his head or playing Christina Aguilera music.

-According to the log, his handlers at one point perform a puppet show satirizing the detainee's involvement with al-Qaeda.
God, that would get annoying after a while. Not like "Stop touching me" "I'm not touching you!" annoying, more like "Being trapped in an elevator for 12 hours listening to a looped tape of the chorus of MMM-Bop" annoying.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 5:56 pm 
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Probably because most of us here are American, and something our own country is doing wrong "hits closer to home". Also, we're in no position to do anything about North Korea, but we have some say in persuading our own government to start having some trials.


Oddly, WHF is not American.

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BTW, comments like that and your post to WHF suggest that you have a tendon that makes your leg kick whenever anyone criticizes the United States' actions. You might want a doctor to look at that. Raspberry


Nah, just when non-Americans obsess about a country that is not their own. I don't go on rants about China or North Korea or Iran every day even though I disagree with a lot of what they're doing.

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 2:25 am 
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She lives in Ireland.
[TOASTPAINT]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:20 am 
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well uh, not to plug, but the most reacent post on my blog is REALLy relevant to this topic. (it's a This American Life episode about Gitmo)

and as far as my feeling about the whole thing. if any of the people there were actually guilty, i would have less problems with interrogations/holding without habeas.

what happened, though, was that the american military started offering bounties for terrorists, and so corrupt people started turning in their personal enemies for the dough. two political satirists from pakistan, some traveller who passed through a stranger's town, and a lot of others like that got turned in just for the money (american money being a big deal). so that's just a hundred different ways of screwed up and now basically nobody wants to admit that there are a heck of a lot of people there of no consequence.

they keep the really dangerous people in CIA black sites in other countries anyway.


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