Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

Way to dodge the question, BTG.

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Ah, I see. And agree. See and agree.


Ohhh, sna-ap...

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You want my reason?

The BSA is discriminatory. They do not allow homosexuals or atheists in. How are you supposed to teach fairness and equality when discriminate against two groups of people?

I know I am going to get reemed for saying that but it had to be said.

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If BSA is homophobic, how come they let me in?

OH SNAP!

Nah, I'm kidding. But to tell you the truth, that's a lie. Straight and simple. I don't need to reason it out with you, because it's simply not true. Troops may operate on that level, but BSA as a whole does not.

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Sister, now that we're grieving
Our fingers will falter
Our lungs will be leaking
All over each other and without even speaking
We'll know that it's over and smile and go greeting
Whatever comes next

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But y'see, that rule is not actually applied. If you were to go on to TV and scream "I'M HOMOSEXUAL" then maybe, you would be removed from the program. But nobody's going to kick you out because they suspect it, and they can't if you don't tell them.

Their reasons for excluding homosexuals are... pretty awful, to tell you the truth. Atheists however, I can see the reasoning. A Boy Scout can't lie or anything, and we also have to live by all the points of the Scout Oath. An atheist can't do his duty to God if he doesn't believe in him.

And besides, just because the BSA is like that, doesn't mean that all of us are. There are plenty of other Boy Scouting organizations in the world, and really, most people aren't going to go tattling about someone's sexuality or beliefs, because hopefully, the Boy Scout program taught them something about honor.

You can't blame us for a rule that we didn't make and don't follow. You have a reason to hate the BSA, not the boy scouts themselves.

EDIT: This spot was previously occupied by a command to "shut it" however, I'd like to include one more thing.

In every other country, Boy Scouts can be whatever they like, and not be removed from the scouting organization. America largely brought these restrictions upon themselves, due to prejudiced beliefs practiced by the younger parts of society, and much of the older parts too. America's dislike of homosexuals and atheists as a whole has caused this restriction, not the descision of just a few bigots.

Not to say that nobody supports these people in America, because that is untrue. A large amount of people do. But a larger amount of people don't. This includes the head of the executive branch. It's the fault of America as a whole that these issues are even issues. If we could all live by the ideals set by the constitution, there wouldn't be these issues. But we can't seem to bring ourselves to end the problems, and still carry on our stupid prejudices and things.

Because these people can't fit in to conformity, some don't like them. I know that as a whole, my school are actually afraid of gay people. I may not be, but the majority is. We're just products of products of the people who strived for conformity in the '50s. We're all just obsessive compulsive freaks, trying to get the rest of the world to be exactly the way we like it. Conformed. We all just want everyone to be like us. This is what I don't get. Why do we have to be like that? Why do we have to work that way?

I'm the same way, sitting here telling you, your friends and the rest of your world your faults, and wishing for you to conform to my standards. It's just they way humans are.

So really, you can't blame the BSA for this, because that's exactly the way you are, the way I am, and the way everyone is. The difference is, you don't like their beliefs and they don't like yours. They want you to conform to theirs, while you want them to conform to yours. It's not happening for either of you.

*grumble*

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Sister, now that we're grieving
Our fingers will falter
Our lungs will be leaking
All over each other and without even speaking
We'll know that it's over and smile and go greeting
Whatever comes next

I don't see how instituting, but not enforcing, a hateful policy makes it excusable. I also don't believe you. I think that if, say, a homophobic parent found out that a scout was gay and demanded the scoutmaster kick him out, they would either do it right away or, when the parent went over his head to the BSA, be replaced by someone who would. The Boy Scouts market themselves as an organization that builds boys' self-esteem and character, but I can think of few things more damaging to a young person than being told his sexuality is too shameful to be open and honest about.

I recognize that the BSA is a private organization and has a right to institute whatever hateful policies it wants. However, as far as you or I or BTG are concerned, this isn't about a huge national organization doing something evil, this is about individuals making choices to support that organization in its policies. Every person can make a choice--if you're aware of the BSA's policies and you become a scout or a scoutmaster anyway, you're saying "these policies--whether they're enforced or not--are okay with me."

(This prolly needs a Toast Paint--anybody wanna start this topic up in R&P?)

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What about homosexual Scoutmasters? I'm extremely uncomfortable with the idea of homosexual men going on overnight camping trips with young boys.

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I'm also uncomfortable with heterosexual scoutmasters taking girls scouts on camping trips.

One point that can be made is that the kind of person that preys on young boys or girls is a different type than someone who is homosexual. The first is criminally disturbed, and shouldn't be around young children of either gender. The second is no more likely to assault the youth than a heterosexual person.

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You're confusing homosexuality with paedophilia.

Not the same thing not the same thing not the same thing.

And that's a really dangerous assumption, too. I mean, do you think that it's any less risky to let your child go on a camping trip with a married man? Of course it's not - why would it? Paedophiles come in all guises, and the only way to ensure the safety of your child is to ensure that there is proper supervision of the camping trip, and that there's a thorough vetting of all scoutmasters before they're allowed to be alone with the children.



Yarr - exactly.

He probably has a generalized assumption, or he is homophobic.

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Well, I don't know about that, but it is a huge peeve of mine when people assume that a seeming heterosexual man, with the wife and kids and all that - or even a member of the clergy - is more trustworthy at face value than a gay man. They're not. And a lot of parents who have made that assumption end up getting it drastically wrong.

Paedophiles are preditors, and know exactly how to manipulate people's perceptions of them and their motives. It's got little or nothing to do with their outward displays of sexuality.

But that's a discussion for somewhere else.

See, I don't have a problem with that. I don't see why a heterosexual male will molest/rape children. Unless you meant it sarcasticly. Now I look like a fool...
And wait, the United States has Boys/Girls scouts? Australian scouts are mixed gender, and I don't see why that's not the case with all of them.

There is a seperate girl guides asscosiation, but that's not as popular, I belive.

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<(* ) THRUSTER DUCK
( << )<~~~ WANTS
O O YOUR SOUL

Don't assume anything.

Just because a guy is straight doesn't mean that he won't molest a child. A straight man is just as capable of doing that as a gay man.

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That's what I'm saying, though. Both are of no more risk to children than the other.

Internet speak make people no understand me good...

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<(* ) THRUSTER DUCK
( << )<~~~ WANTS
O O YOUR SOUL

Wow, I hate you already!

Two-deep leadership, baby. A scoutmaster should never be alone with children.

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I'm with racerx and WHF here. Screening out all openly gay men in order to eliminate child molesters is equivalent to screening out all women in order to eliminate lefties (in fact it's less so, because the child molesters have a very strong inscentive to remain as hidden as possible).

Also, think about the kind of message you're sending to your kid if you say, "You can't go on that camping trip with your friends--Scoutmaster Greg will be there and he's gay." I can't imagine many things more damaging to a child's impression of homosexuals than that. That's the sort of thing that perpetuates this bizarre mythos of homosexuals being more inclined to sexual predation.

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I'm just gonna throw my two cents in, then run while you peoples fight over them.
Like SOOOOoooo freakin' many topics in the R&P, I'm divided on this.

The scouts are a private organization, as such, they have the right to make whatever strange rules they want. I may not agree with them, but oh well. The world isn't about what you agree with, and the sooner people realize that, the better.

Secondly, this notion of homosexuals as child molestors is kinda getting old. I'm not even really sure how it got started. My guess is that since pedophiles have some sort of deviant sex drive, and some people claim that homosexuality is also a deviant drive, the two are equated. Logically, I suppose it makes sense, provided you're willing to make the assumption that homosexuality is some sort of devation (and I REALLY don't think/know/feel that it is). Anydangways, it seems like almost every night on the news, you hear about some person or another that molested some 10 year old kid. Rarely (I say rarely, but mean probably never) is that person an open homosexual. Even more rarely does that person even consider themself anything but straight.
I guess my point is (one that's been made by others several times), I'm not convinced that gays, be they openly gay, hidden, or whatever, are any more likely to molest children.
Either way, gay or straight, I like the "no adult should be alone with the kids" idea.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Okay, that's a bad policy. Not all homosexual people are child molesters, and not all heterosexual people are fine and dandy. If you're going to be scared of a gay man raping your child on a camping trip, you should be just as scared of a straight man in the same situation.

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Thanks to everyone who decided I'm a bigoted homophobe.

Let me explain.... much like racerx said, I'd also be very uncomfortable having an adult male take young girls on an overnight campout.

Do I think everyone is a pedophile who will abuse any child of the sex they're attracted to on sight?

No. But that doesn't mean I trust everyone, either.



True, but a homosexual man is more likely to rape a male child than a heterosexual male is. It's all about what sex you're attracted to, IMO.

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I disagree. It seems that every case of pedophiles I've seen in the news that involve molesting a child of the same sex involves a person who is otherwise heterosexual (in that they are not openly homosexual, and in a lot of cases don't consider themselves attracted to adults of the same sex).

Of course, these people could be closet homosexuals, and don't want to admit it.

I've seen it argued before that pedophilia is more a power thing than a sex thing. In other words, it's someone wanting to assert their dominance over someone with less power than them (a child). Unfortunately, I'm no psychologist, so I really don't know much about that.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

You know, that's the same argument psychologists make about rape.... that's it not a sexual thing, but it's all about control and power instead. I don't know.

I don't understand either situation, personally.... all I know for sure is that both behaviors are evil and those who rape women or molest children should die.

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I know this was a time ago, but don't flame. Of course, this may not be flaming, and I am just rambling and attempting to think I have authority, but hey, if anything, take it to PM.
Well, the BSA has every right to do it. People may think it is morally wrong, but they can do it. It is a private organization, and no one is forcing homosexuals or atheists to join.

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GENGHIS KHAN!!!!!

all i know is i was a boy scout for years and i hated the gays in scouting controversy. it sucks because it is a hateful rule and the boy scouts should not be a hateful organization.

that said, i had a scoutmaster that would have sooner lost is job and spent all of his money in lawsuits than let one single kid be deprived of scouting if they wanted to be in scouting. so i think that the BSA as a whole is very wrong in my eyes but i am proud of my time as a scout because i am proud of who my scoutmaster was.

They aren't a hateful group. The rule isn't hateful. It might be discriminatory (which, as a private organization, for better or for worse, they are allowed to do), but it is not hateful. As far as I know, BSA doesn't teach hatred against gays. I've never heard of a Gay Bashing merit badge.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

yeah good call, probably a bad choice of words. i do resent the BSA a lot for the gays in scouting rule but i suppose discriminatory is much more proper than hateful.

I don't think the "private organization" is a valid reason. They recieve federal funding, and they're also allowed to hold meetings in public schools.

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I think that forcing homosexuals out of the organization certainly promotes, or at least perpetuates, the hatred and marginalization of gays.

I certainly believe that a private organization (barring Jello B.'s objections, which are compelling, but which I haven't had a chance to look into yet) has the right to enforce whatever internal rules that it wishes, but I do think that disallowing gays does not fit with many of the BSA's claimed tenets and can be very, very damaging to the very people whose characters the organization hopes to build.

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i just dont like them (boy scouts) 'cus they are annoying and they eat leaves.