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 Post subject: The New York Times
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:34 pm 
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I'm all for journalistic rights in the United States, but the New York Times it taking things way too far. I've never been a fan of how they're constantly harping on Bush while hardly ever presenting the other side.

But that's not illegal.

The New York times continually printing classified information is.

link

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:39 pm 
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It was disclosed last week by the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and the Los Angeles Times.


Don't pin it all on the New York Times.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:45 pm 
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The New York Times broke the story.

That means the other papers just ran it after the NYT did.

I feel completely justified in pinning this on the New York Times.

Do you have anything else to add?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:51 pm 
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Nope. However, I agree that they shouldn't do things like this while we're at war.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:56 pm 
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I agree that this was not very wise of the media to do. While I'm usually all about the public knowing the truth, there have to be some limits. This is comparable to a kid telling his family, friends, neighbors, and everyone else he knows that the local police department is setting up a sting operation to bust some unsuspecting drug users. There needs to be times when, for the sake of the greater good, we have to keep our mouths shut about certain goings on of the government. And I understand that perhaps this should be moreso because we're at war...but the very idea of a "war on terror" is like trying to fight a "war on evil in general" and expecting to end anytime soon...if at all... There will always be people who think vastly differently from any of us because of their upbringings and such, so to think that we can track every last human being on the planet and make sure that they never grow up to be a terrorist is far-fetched.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:41 pm 
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Finally, someone stand up to this blatant disregard of American safety:

House condemns NY Times actions

Quote:
The resolution "condemns the unauthorized disclosure of classified information" and "expects the cooperation of all news media organizations in protecting the lives of Americans and the capability of the government to identify, disrupt and capture terrorists by not disclosing classified intelligence programs such as the Terrorist Finance Tracking Program."

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:34 am 
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uh, lahi, i reaaaally hate to tell you but the House condemning something in a resolution doesn't mean crap. it's simply a statement that holds no force or rule of law, just like their resolution stating that the Iraq war is right and just and should be carried out. well great, that is the opinion of the majority there but it doesn't DO anything.

as for the NYT themselves, i read it often, almost daily. the stories are balanced and the headlines are never deceptive and they do not report lies. that said, i haven't really made up my mind how i feel about the idea that this was classified and they printed it. that actually does irk me. what also irks me is that someone on the inside told them, since it was classified. so who leaked it to the media? they are as much at fault in my opinion. overall i know that the New York Times is a good truthful publication because i don't care about the "liberal media" or what any political analyst or pundit left or right says. i like to know what happens and the NYT along with the boston globe and hartford courant provide that to me often.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:10 am 
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as for the NYT themselves, i read it often, almost daily. the stories are balanced and the headlines are never deceptive and they do not report lies.


Whoah whoah whoah whoah. It's late now, but prepare for a big long post about how you're a bit naive tomorrow.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:04 am 
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putitinyourshoe wrote:
as for the NYT themselves, i read it often, almost daily. the stories are balanced and the headlines are never deceptive and they do not report lies.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:09 am 
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no sarcasm, and as a journalist i am deeply offended by lahimatoa. honestly, news is news. its not like they are like those bull(honkey) conspiracy theorists on the internet who simply lie, they have sources and if you simply read stories and do not listen to what hacks like o'reilly and hannity say about the liberal media conspiracy, its jst a frikkin newspaper.

and spare me your schlock, lahi. you do not know me and if you did, you would know that i am a skeptic and a cynic, and an especially wary person. so don't tell me what i am. you know nothing about me.

*Edit by ramrod - watch the language*


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:17 pm 
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The New York Times is one of the most respected newspapers, and news sources, in the world.

"lahimatoa" is not.

If there is a terrorist attack on american soil in the next year due to the NYT, I will give each member on the forum a shiny $50 note.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:48 pm 
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OK people. Enough with the bickering. Let's not turn this into a Liberal/Conservative bias thread. If I see anymore of this bickering I'm a go and lock this thing. That goes for all of you.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:25 pm 
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I'm not here to fight, and I am not saying that the Time is a bush league paper that no one should respect.

My point is that they have bias. And have printed lies.

1. Bias: Wikipedia summed the situation up nicely for me here.

2. Lies: Here's another Wikipedia link.

Again, I am not saying the Time is fraught with lies and corruption. But to allege they are a pillar of light, virtuous and pure on every level, is just naivete.

EDIT: And while I'm discussing bias in the news, here's a piece about Ken Lay and what punishment he "deserves" found in the Washington Post (another liberal paper).

Here's a gem excerpt:

Quote:
But now that he's died of a heart attack in the luxury of his Colorado getaway while awaiting sentencing for his crimes, none of his victims will be able to contemplate that he's locked away in a place that makes the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel look like Hawaii; that he might be spending long nights locked in a cell with a panting tattooed monster named Sumo, a man of strange and constant demands; and long days in the prison laundry or jute mill or license plate factory, gibbering with anguish as fire-eyed psychopaths stare at him for unblinking hours while they sharpen spoons into jailhouse stilettos.


I believe the term for these kinds of thoughts is "pervert." But what I find more interesting is that this article is not written for Zarqawi. His death elicited panting complaints about Geneva Convention violations for showing his death photo on television. This column is not written for Hussein. His capture brought demands for humane treatment. "Is he getting his regular allotment of Doritos???"

But for an evil capitalist? Death is too good for him. He needs to suffer.

Ken Lay was a bad man, and he deserved to go to prison. But the Left's double-standard is the more interesting story here.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:00 am 
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Lahi, no Newspaper is truely unbiased. They all swing on some side of the political spectrum. Some to the left, some to the right. Some are more open about it than others. But none of them are perfect.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:07 am 
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ramrod wrote:
Lahi, no Newspaper is truely unbiased. They all swing on some side of the political spectrum. Some to the left, some to the right. Some are more open about it than others. But none of them are perfect.
And if you don't like what a newspaper, don't read it. It's that simple.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:31 am 
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Lahi, no Newspaper is truely unbiased. They all swing on some side of the political spectrum. Some to the left, some to the right. Some are more open about it than others. But none of them are perfect.


Absolutely.

It's just that there are a lot of people who don't agree with you. When someone firmly believes that the NY Times is "balanced and the headlines are never deceptive and they do not report lies," I feel a need to correct that perception. It can be dangerous to think that way. And a lot of the public does.

That's all.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:00 pm 
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you say they report "lies", but that was only ONE journalist. Your viewpoint is simply deranged.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:03 pm 
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fossilise_apostle wrote:
you say they report "lies", but that was only ONE journalist. Your viewpoint is simply deranged.
I think deranged's a bit too harsh of a word. Maybe it's critical, but not deranged.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:07 pm 
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Ok, not deranged. How about inane?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:15 pm 
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sorry if i was too harsh earlier and im not going to get fully involved in this all over again.

i think saying "bush league" is harsh lahi because many people spend their lives and careers doing the best they can to report stories as simply as possible. say what you want about opinion columnists and feature writers, but the feet on the street reporting the regular old news that debates like this ignore work very hard to get things done, and done well.

the point about a truly unbiased paper is well-taken. it is probably impossible to achieve true neutrality, because not only do humans write the stories, it is an amassed effort of many people, and individually, most of those people have almost zero power to steer the direction of the paper (except of course, executives). so taking that into account, i agree with ramrod and it's tough to be perfect, and NYT isn't (see my initial post).

out of curiosity, lahi, what papers (if any) do you consider to be good paragons of truly professional journalism?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:14 am 
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Hillbilly Weekly, perhaps?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:19 am 
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fossilise_apostle wrote:
Hillbilly Weekly, perhaps?

Thank you for that worthless bit of spam.
Personal attacks are not tolerated.
Stop.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:27 am 
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i think saying "bush league" is harsh lahi because many people spend their lives and careers doing the best they can to report stories as simply as possible.


I never said the NY Times was bush league. The only time I used that term, in fact, was in saying that I believe the NY Times is not bush league. Go read over my post again.

Quote:
out of curiosity, lahi, what papers (if any) do you consider to be good paragons of truly professional journalism?


To be honest, I have yet to find a paper that I think is beyond reproach. As I said earlier, no paper is completely unbiased. No paper is flawless. Every paper prints retractions. Some do a better job than others, but I will not take any newspaper at face value.

Not even Hillbilly Weekly.

I think the best way to find out the truth about something is to get information about it from many different sources.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:41 am 
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ok, whooops my error. very sorry that i messed up the bush league comment.

i suppose i agree with you about no paper being beyond reproach, but my point of view differs in that i feel like the indivduals who do the reporting work pretty darn hard and i give them all credit for that. and in that way, all newspapers deserve a great deal of credit.

im gonna stir the pot a bit now. i think that TV news, particularly cable news networks (lets not even get into the FOX issue. skip it.) like CNN are terrible examples of true news. if you watch something like CNN for a little while, suddenly you realize, every reporter is talking about how they don't know anything yet and they are waiting for details (i'm generalizing here, but i'm saying as an overall impression). plus cable news is all about impressing people with scary/pretty pictures and making reporters go stand around in hurricanes. its such a joke to me.

oh yeah, all that and then how most of the time when you tune to cable news it's some weird interview with somebody noone cares about like britney spears or whatever moving picture stars those kids today like to see.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:03 pm 
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putitinyourshoe wrote:
ok, whooops my error. very sorry that i messed up the bush league comment.

i suppose i agree with you about no paper being beyond reproach, but my point of view differs in that i feel like the indivduals who do the reporting work pretty darn hard and i give them all credit for that. and in that way, all newspapers deserve a great deal of credit.

im gonna stir the pot a bit now. i think that TV news, particularly cable news networks (lets not even get into the FOX issue. skip it.) like CNN are terrible examples of true news. if you watch something like CNN for a little while, suddenly you realize, every reporter is talking about how they don't know anything yet and they are waiting for details (i'm generalizing here, but i'm saying as an overall impression). plus cable news is all about impressing people with scary/pretty pictures and making reporters go stand around in hurricanes. its such a joke to me.

oh yeah, all that and then how most of the time when you tune to cable news it's some weird interview with somebody noone cares about like britney spears or whatever moving picture stars those kids today like to see.


exactly right. it's not real news. it's "newstainment". it's about ratings. cnn's coverage of 9/11 was truely excerable.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:39 pm 
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Found this on Glenn Beck's website. Funny, but sad because it's true:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:17 pm 
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*rolling my eyes out of my head, across the ocean, and back stateside*

in the pundits' pockets, just as i thought.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:36 pm 
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Intelligent response, shoe. Thank you for your contribution. I assume you disagree with the point?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:39 am 
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do you really think you're changing anyone's mind by showing them a headline from the civil war?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:42 am 
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fossilise_apostle wrote:
do you really think you're changing anyone's mind by showing them a headline from the civil war?
Dude, that's the American Revolution, and it's a gag headline.

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