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Is underage drinking wrong?
Yes, God says it's wrong 7%  7%  [ 4 ]
Yes, it's against the law 43%  43%  [ 25 ]
Maybe, but I don't care 22%  22%  [ 13 ]
No 28%  28%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 58
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 Post subject: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:23 am 
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Ok, I'm just going to say what I think here.

I've been having a spiritual problem to do with drinking, specifically underage drinking. Is it really such a bad thing from a Christian moral perspective?

The bible warns against drunkenness, but even Jesus drank wine, he turned water into wine, and once accused people using the metaphor of them "drinking only water" and not wine.

A few bible commentaries I have read state bible verses to show how irresponsible drinking is bad but then simply stated that underage drinking is also irresponsible without giving any biblical evidence why it is.

Yes, Christians are supposed to follow the "laws of the land", but I think this is just to show our moral value to others, and to associate better with non-Christian society. Today's teenage society doesn't follow these particular laws anyway, so why should Christians be morally bound to them. Not drinking at parties can turn a Christian into an outsider, as drinking with people is an excellent bonding experience, and as such can lead to becoming friends with non-Christians and possibly leading them to God.

So far the only real reasoning I have come up with against underage drinking is that it does not honor my parents, because they are really opposed to it just like everyone else.

If anyone has any other arguments and reasons for or against underage drinking, I would like to hear them. I'm still not sure if it is wrong or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:31 am 
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Well, Jesus was the one who turned water into wine, so alcohol can't be all that bad. In those days, wine was actually safer than drinking water, which was contaminated with who-knows-what. Didy mentioned something about it a while back; you might wanna search for that.

From my understanding, we as Christians may drink alcohol but shouldn't get drunk. There's quite a difference. Today's science has shown that drinking red wine is good for your heart. I see nothing wrong with alcohol in moderation; just know your limits--don't drink and drive.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:46 am 
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The only thing I have for underage drinking being bad for you is just how much more harm it can do when your body can't tolerate it in excess. And, like Ian said, according the Bible, alcohol is acceptable as long as it is not abused.

Now, my personal viewpoint on alcohol is that I'm never going to drink. I have no reason to want to drink. No one in my family drinks. My dad used to be an alcoholic in college, but I've never seen him have a drink in my life. With my parents, I never saw them drink, so I was raised with an image in my head that drinking at all is bad and wrong. Even today (I'm 16), when I see adults drinking, even just one drink, I kinda look around in disgust. A few of my friends drink, and they're my age. I try to warn them that it could hurt them. They don't seem to care.
But again, that's my viewpoint. I'm never going to drink. I'll never touch a drop of alcohol.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:58 am 
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Both of those points together do make a reason against underage drinking. Younger people are more likely to drink in excess if they do drink because they don't know their limits. I personally started slowly and have never been drunk, but I do have good mates who are responsible and accept people who do or don't drink. I know this isn't the case for all young people, and peer pressure can be a problem.

But still, this problem can be just the same if you are 16 or 18 years old when you start drinking. 18 year olds are still not very mature and a lot of 18th birthdays can turn into a piss-up quickly.
I know the dangers of drinking, the real question is why is underage drinking supposedly so much worse?

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:23 am 
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One reason is that the minimum legal driving age in the US (16) is lower than the minimum drinking age (21).

Picture some high-school kids at a party. They're all old enough to drive, and someone buys them alcohol. Teenage hormones+driving+alcohol=dangerous stuff. Besides, most kids at that age aren't even responsible enough to drive, let alone throw back a couple beers.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:27 am 
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I am of divided opinion on this one.

First of all, as a professional theologian, I must object to the first answer on the grounds that God never declared moderate, responsible use of alcohol to be wrong. In fact, as Ian pointed out earlier, Jesus turned water into wine (real wine according to the Greek text, not unfermented juice), and even used wine to institute one of his sacraments.

However, in numerous places, irresponsible and excessive drinking are condemned. Why? Because too much alcohol impairs sound judgment. It destroys health, relationships, jobs, businesses, and lives. If you don't believe it, just look at the DUI fatality statistics sometime.

The reason the United States for the most part has minimum age limits on drinking is to try to prevent irresponsible drinking. Unfortunately, there are plenty of irresponsible people over 21, so it may not be working quite right.

If a parent occasionally gives a teenager a glass of wine or some beer which they would consume at home - not in public - and only a little, then I would have no problem with that. But responsibility and moderation are the key here.

Excessive drinking (getting drunk) is out; not only does it promote irresponsible behavior, but it also establishes early patterns that likely will lead to substance addiction. Public consumption also is out: if you're breaking the law, then you're already acting irresponsibly and should not be drinking. Sneaking it without your parents' permission is also irresponsible.

I would suggest that underage drinking should be okay if and only if these criteria are met:
1. a moderate amount (small glass of wine or beer perhaps).
2. occasional (not every day).
3. at home or in private (not out in public).
4. overseen by a responsible adult, like a parent.

And finally, if you find yourself already in a pattern of repeated drunkenness or irresponsible drinking habits, then get help. Seek help from a professional counselor or an organization like Alcoholics Anonymous.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:50 am 
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Yeah, I believe it is wrong. There are a lot of stupid kids out there.

But I do drink. I'm pretty responsible about it. Meaning, I never do anything stupid when I'm drunk.

What can I say? I'm not into any other drugs or anything, so this is my bad thing that I do.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:42 pm 
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iKipapa wrote:
The only thing I have for underage drinking being bad for you is just how much more harm it can do when your body can't tolerate it in excess. And, like Ian said, according the Bible, alcohol is acceptable as long as it is not abused.

Now, my personal viewpoint on alcohol is that I'm never going to drink. I have no reason to want to drink. No one in my family drinks. My dad used to be an alcoholic in college, but I've never seen him have a drink in my life. With my parents, I never saw them drink, so I was raised with an image in my head that drinking at all is bad and wrong. Even today (I'm 16), when I see adults drinking, even just one drink, I kinda look around in disgust. A few of my friends drink, and they're my age. I try to warn them that it could hurt them. They don't seem to care.
But again, that's my viewpoint. I'm never going to drink. I'll never touch a drop of alcohol.

*High-Five*

Drinking even in moderation is a bad thing.

Biscuithead, what you said in your first post about making a good image and all that. You can't use evil to bring someone to do the right, it just doesn't work that way man. People will see you as a drinker, not as a Christian.

See ikipapa's post for example, Christian or not, he sees you drinking, he instantly thinks less of you.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:02 pm 
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If somebody would think less of me 'cause they saw me having a drink, I don't know if I'd want their respect anyway...

And I'm saying this even though I don't drink.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:13 pm 
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On one hand, I have to agree with Kef. There are too many things that people judge you by, anyway: some of them perhaps appropriately, but many of them not so. People judge you based on how you dress, the kind of music you listen to, the kind of car you drive, how much money you make, etc. At some point, you have to start taking responsibility for your own actions, rather than letting what everyone else thinks govern you. You can't please everyone, and most often, the ones who need the most pleasing end up being the ones who don't deserve it.

On the other hand, there is a certain extent where you really shouldn't cause problems with other people on account of something that - let's face it - isn't really that important to start with.

My rule of thumb is this: if it will help the other person - by easing their conscience and encouraging them to do right - then I will refrain for their sake. On the other hand, if all it's going to do is encourage them to continue being self-righteous judgmental hypocrites (which isn't helping them at all), then I'll do what I feel like and not really care what they have to say. I won't drink around an alcoholic or someone who refrains because of their own personal convictions. But I will drink around those who feel like not drinking makes them better than other people.

But as far as underage drinking goes: it is illegal, and it can problems for people who see you do it. So perhaps it is best to refrain.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:33 pm 
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Underage drinking is no more immoral than legal drinking. Getting drunk is not immoral or wrong either, although it does make some people do immoral things, or in some cases just give them the excuse to. If you're not a complete *(&^$ you're probably fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:59 pm 
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damik wrote:
Underage drinking is no more immoral than legal drinking. Getting drunk is not immoral or wrong either, although it does make some people do immoral things, or in some cases just give them the excuse to. If you're not a complete *(&^$ you're probably fine.


Driving counts as being a complete *(&^$, right?

From my nonreligious point of view, I see noting morally wrong with drinking lightly to moderately at any age, assuming you aren't being a danger to others. This goes for any drug, legal or illegal.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:04 pm 
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Yes, indeed it does. In fact, I agree with you completely.


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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:16 pm 
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Drinking underage isn't wrong. You're not hurting anyone else by drinking, you're simply ingesting a liquid, so it's not immoral. Something is only morally wrong if doing so harms someone else, and drinking by itself doesn't do that. Now, drinking can cause a lack of judgment which can in turn lead to driving under the influence, which can indeed bring harm to another person, but the act of drinking itself doesn't inherently bring that - its one's own lack of self control and intelligence that leads to driving under the influence and hurting another person. The act of drinking may lead to a lack of judgment and therefore cause potential to harm somebody, but the alcohol isn't what's at fault, it's the person who can't control themselves that's to blame. So no, I don't think drinking is wrong. Doing something that harms someone else, regardless as to whether alcohol is involved or not, is.

Remember, though, that while underage drinking might not be morally wrong in that it doesn't harm someone else, it could harm yourself. There's nothing inherently wrong with drinking, you and your body will just have to pay the price if you make a mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:41 pm 
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I'll have to agree with Ju Ju. Like, completely. He stole'd my thoughts. I'm calling the police...

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:28 am 
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I go to parties where they serve alcohol and I don't drink,(Unless its wine), and I'm not considered an Outcast.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:30 am 
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Underage drinking is wrong because it's illegal and it turns everyone into d-bags. Seriously, half my freaking class drinks frequently, and all of them are serious jerks, and a few of them have done jailtime.

Quote:
I go to parties where they serve alcohol and I don't drink,(Unless its wine), and I'm not considered an Outcast.

THIS. And I'm sick of seeing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:33 am 
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I see nothing wrong with the underage consumption of alcohol. But when I say that I mean under the government's designated age, not under an age where you're mature enough to use it responsibly. And that varies from person to person.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:37 am 
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It's ok to taste something offered by your parents, a relative, or someone of legal drinking age, but if you steal some alcohol and kill it, that's bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:46 am 
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AbuGrape45 wrote:
Underage drinking is wrong because it's illegal and it turns everyone into d-bags. Seriously, half my freaking class drinks frequently, and all of them are serious jerks, and a few of them have done jailtime.

Okay, an extension of one of my questions asked in the girlfriend/boyfriend thread: What is a class of 13 year-olds doing drinking? While I don't mind that people do underage drinking if done responsibly, that is seriously too young for anybody.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:48 am 
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Everyone from my town under the age of 17 is scum. They drink, they smoke weed, they steal, they sell Vicaden on school campuses, and more. Why? Because they think it makes them sooo cool.

Also, Because Parents Don't Care.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:52 am 
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AbuGrape45 wrote:
It's ok to taste something offered by your parents, a relative, or someone of legal drinking age, but if you steal some alcohol and kill it, that's bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:01 am 
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AbuGrape45 wrote:
Everyone from my town under the age of 17 is scum. They drink, they smoke weed, they steal, they sell Vicaden on school campuses, and more. Why? Because they think it makes them sooo cool.

Also, Because Parents Don't Care.
...But aren't you under 17?

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:18 am 
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AbuGrape45 wrote:
Underage drinking is wrong because it's illegal and it turns everyone into d-bags. Seriously, half my freaking class drinks frequently, and all of them are serious jerks, and a few of them have done jailtime.

I think you're mixing up cause and effect there.


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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:33 am 
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Something is not "wrong" because it's illegal, if we're talking ethics here. Something is "wrong" because it violates moral standards and social mores. Often this is why laws are made, but other times it is not. Truancy, for instance, does not violate any social mores: it is not shocking and offensive if someone does not show up to school or if they evade parole. So stop saying that, as it's a fallacy and shows no critical thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:12 am 
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HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote:
AbuGrape45 wrote:
Everyone from my town under the age of 17 is scum. They drink, they smoke weed, they steal, they sell Vicaden on school campuses, and more. Why? Because they think it makes them sooo cool.

Also, Because Parents Don't Care.
...But aren't you under 17?

Yes. That excludes me and the kids I hang out with. Why? Because we aren't potheads and alchies.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:36 am 
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DS_Kid wrote:
Okay, an extension of one of my questions asked in the girlfriend/boyfriend thread: What is a class of 13 year-olds doing drinking? While I don't mind that people do underage drinking if done responsibly, that is seriously too young for anybody.

You're surprised that 13-year-olds are drinking? Are you really that naïve?

I mean, I agree with you, but come on. Don't tell me you weren't expecting it.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:43 am 
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One of the main reasons I don't want to lower the legal drinking age is because the earlier you start drinking, the worse it is for you. I've heard/read that if you start drinking consistently at 21, there's about a 9% chance of harming your brain chemistry. If you start at 15, that number is 50%, because the brain is not nearly as developed yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:52 am 
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Lunar Jesty wrote:
damik wrote:
Underage drinking is no more immoral than legal drinking. Getting drunk is not immoral or wrong either, although it does make some people do immoral things, or in some cases just give them the excuse to. If you're not a complete *(&^$ you're probably fine.


Driving counts as being a complete *(&^$, right?

From my nonreligious point of view, I see noting morally wrong with drinking lightly to moderately at any age, assuming you aren't being a danger to others. This goes for any drug, legal or illegal.

Yah', but think about the damage you do to yourself. Or does your body not matter to you?

Also think about what happens after using drugs. I mean, look what they do to you, like that won't hurt your friends and family emotionally?

Its bad man, and thats all there is to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Alcohol
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:56 am 
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Einoo T. Spork wrote:
You're surprised that 13-year-olds are drinking? Are you really that naïve?

I mean, I agree with you, but come on. Don't tell me you weren't expecting it.

I expect that some 13-year-olds drink, I just didn't expect half a classroom of 13-year-olds to be drinking.

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