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 Post subject: Drugs?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:12 am 
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The other day, my friend Charles and I were discussing the drug problem in America. He said that, because there is no way to completely stop the flow of drugs to this country, that we should stop trying to do it at all, and instead legalize all drugs with regulations so that we can remove the illicit drug dealers' incentive to sell.

I thought it was kinda ridiculous to just throw up our hands and say "we can't stop it, so let's encourage it." But I also got to thinking. I've believed that marijuana should be legal for a while now. Though I've never tried it, it doesn't really seem to do too much damage. But the harder stuff, crack, meth, heroin...if that were legalized, how could you regulate them? That stuff will KILL you if you do it wrong ONCE. Which is why I thought a good idea would be clinics where you would go if you needed the drugs, you could buy them there but you also had to USE them there so that you could be supervised at all times and not accidentally kill yourself or run some kid over or something like that.

He also brought up the military's destruction of poppy plants in Afghanistan. These are one of the biggest sources of income to the Afghan farmers, and they are used to produce opium and heroin. He thinks that because these are essential to the Afghan economy, we should leave them alone, whereas I tend to think that the production of drugs is a BAD thing and should not be tolerated when it can be stopped. They can get a new cash crop.


So what I want to know is everyone else's take on some of these things. Discuss. :eekdance:

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:19 am 
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I agree with you entirely.

A. They can get a new cash crop.
B. Don't encourage it just because you can't stop it.
C. This stuff will kill you if you do it wrong, or even right, once.

Also, you think drunk driving is bad? Ha! Just step it up to the harder crap.

Forget about it. While I don't mind people doing drugs if they can still be productive members of society, the harder drugs will kill your brain cells/body like nothing else and you end up like... Keith Richards. I mean, ok, he's successful in the "entertainment biz" where people like Britney Spears can make it big, but do you really want to live that life? Talk about dip yourself into a bucket, then wring yourself out kinda lifestyle!

And forget about a healthy family. Just. Forget. About. It. That's my main beef: When your lifestyle screws up everybody around you. Then you're just selfish. I don't mind people 'experimenting', we can all have our wild oats, go for it... but I don't think it should be made legal just to make things 'safer'. Noooo thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:25 am 
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Well, they all damage lives. And when I think drugs, I include Alcohol and Tobacco.

This is the way I see it: if you want to damage your own life, go ahead - but I think that attitude stops when, by ingesting these substances, they start to damage lives outside of their own. That's where I think the government should step in.

The only way that someone could even slightly decide which drugs to ban, would be to think about how much harm one person could cause to many by having an addiction to these things. That's why I think that alcohol is pretty much on the level with some of the drugs that are more commonly referred to as what they are - it disrupts other peoples' lives, when taken irresponsibly. I'm not saying that alcohol should be banned - really, I don't think it's a bad thing, unless one of the many irresponsible people in this country has taken a bit too much and runs some family off the road and into a ditch. It's hard to judge a whole country of people and decide to altogether ban or legalize something.

Tobacco, well...that's something that I have a personal thing with. It killed my grandfather - lung cancer. It has no beneficial effects and is only there to addict, therefore selling more product, therefore making more money. If it does not benefit anybody, and will only hurt, then I do not see why it should be legal, or why it should even exist. It's a terrible thing that does terrible things to you.

I'm not knowledgeable enough when it comes to any of the illegal drugs to talk about my position on them, but we're taking a drug unit in health right now, so hopefully, by soon 'o clock, I'll know enough to say something about them.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:30 am 
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I would prefer it if the opium poppy, coca plant, and tobacco plant were to be eradicated from the planet. That's not going to happen though.

One of the other things we talked about was enforcement. Drugs can ruin lives and the lives of those living with or dependent on the user. If they were to legalize drugs, when would be the point that the government would decide to step in? And what form would it take? Would they take your kids away? Send the user to a compulsory you-don't-leave-till-you're-clean-or-dead rehab clinic program? What if you were clearly destroying your life but had no dependents? Would the government be obliged - allowed, even - to stop/help you?

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:39 am 
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Jitka wrote:
I would prefer it if the opium poppy, coca plant, and tobacco plant were to be eradicated from the planet. That's not going to happen though.


I wouldn't go for that, so much as the fact that you can pretty much drug yourself with most anything. I wouldn't go eradicating toads, you know... And those plants have enviromental and medical properties.

Jitka wrote:
One of the other things we talked about was enforcement. Drugs can ruin lives and the lives of those living with or dependent on the user. If they were to legalize drugs, when would be the point that the government would decide to step in? And what form would it take? Would they take your kids away? Send the user to a compulsory you-don't-leave-till-you're-clean-or-dead rehab clinic program? What if you were clearly destroying your life but had no dependents? Would the government be obliged - allowed, even - to stop/help you?


In all honesty, what exactly is the Government doing about Alchoholics? Hardcore tabacco users? Sure you can have law law laws and taxes taxes taxes but this does NOTHING to the families. Millions of lives are ruined everyday by these addictions, even when some parents get pulled in for abuse charges/alchohol charges, the majority still go free-- ruining more lives. The Government is a broken wheel that can't do jackcrap for us, so why bother legalizing something that they're going to screw up on regulating... much like they screw up everything else.

rah rah rah... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:41 am 
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Ron Paul 08, right? :p

I don't know, maybe I have more trust in the government than you do, or maybe I'm just picturing an ideal world situation here.

As for the plants, how 'bout eradicated from the wild? That way they'd be in the "responsible" hands of the government.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:44 am 
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Jitka wrote:
Ron Paul 08, right? :p


THAT'S RIGHT. Hee hee hee. Power to the people...

Jitka wrote:
I don't know, maybe I have more trust in the government than you do, or maybe I'm just picturing an ideal world situation here.


Idealistic, yes. I can't see what our Government could've done that could have possibly earned the trust of ANYBODY.

Jitka wrote:
As for the plants, how 'bout eradicated from the wild? That way they'd be in the "responsible" hands of the government.


I could go for that. I'd still worry about the enviromental effects, though. I mean, what would happen if we removed it from it's natural eco-system? Do we have the right to be doing this sort of thing? And really, the quotations are so true... How can we even trust those people? With the 'wrong' people elected, they could Mastermind a lot of dangerous crap with drugs and weapons and--

*sobs*

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:51 am 
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Government's already got the drugs, it'd just be giving them a monopoly. Personally I'd rather have Nancy Pelosi in charge of the drug supply than Pablo Escobar (yes I know he's dead).

As for environmental effects, I'm not worried. It's one plant. If there were like an animal that secreted cancer/AIDS vaccine that only lived on Coca leaves, we could talk, but I don't think they really matter in the long run.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:36 pm 
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I don't have a stance on Marijuana legalization.

Now, stuff like cocaine and heroin...no. Not at all. The idea "we can't stop it so let's make it legaL" is stupid. We can't stop all murders from taking place no matter how hard we try so does that mean we'll turn this country into a bounty-hunting free-for-all?

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:46 pm 
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People should be allowed to do what they want with their own body.

Period.

If the drugs cause them to interfere with the lives of others in a negative way, it's the person's fault, not the drug's.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:36 am 
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HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote:
People should be allowed to do what they want with their own body.

Period.

If the drugs cause them to interfere with the lives of others in a negative way, it's the person's fault, not the drug's.

In an ideal world, I would agree. Often I would choose freedom over safety... but only when the two are in close meaure. I fear the minor freedom we would recieve from legalzing these drugs might not be worth the loss of safety we would also receive. Unfortunately, I don't know all of the facts and statistics, so I can't say for sure what my opinion would be.


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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:35 am 
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HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote:
People should be allowed to do what they want with their own body.

Period.

If the drugs cause them to interfere with the lives of others in a negative way, it's the person's fault, not the drug's.


Excellent stance on personal responsibility, and I agree with it. However, that doesn't mean I'd support legalizing it - since we live in an imperfect world, and I'd rather keep the lives of others as safe as possible. Hence, making abuse/accident/whatever being that much more severe on consequence.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:39 am 
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HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote:
People should be allowed to do what they want with their own body.

Period.

If the drugs cause them to interfere with the lives of others in a negative way, it's the person's fault, not the drug's.


Right, people should be allowed to do what they want, but not at the risk of harming others, which is why I mentioned the Heroin Clinic thing in like my second post. And don't complain that it wouldn't be fun enough to take heroin in a clinic, and people wouldn't want to do it. If you don't like it, you don't get to do it.

This is, of course, assuming we wanted to legalize anything stronger than pot, which I don't agree with in the first place. Stuff that can't really hurt you, though, like pot and LSD, whatever, go for it. :coachz:

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:04 pm 
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Jitka wrote:
HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote:
People should be allowed to do what they want with their own body.

Period.

If the drugs cause them to interfere with the lives of others in a negative way, it's the person's fault, not the drug's.


Right, people should be allowed to do what they want, but not at the risk of harming others, which is why I mentioned the Heroin Clinic thing in like my second post. And don't complain that it wouldn't be fun enough to take heroin in a clinic, and people wouldn't want to do it. If you don't like it, you don't get to do it.

This is, of course, assuming we wanted to legalize anything stronger than pot, which I don't agree with in the first place. Stuff that can't really hurt you, though, like pot and LSD, whatever, go for it. :coachz:

I don't argue with pot. Most of the people I know that are potheads lack the motivation to damage anyone or anything. The LSD thing I don't agree with. Don't people whacked out on LSD do crazy things to people sometimes?

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:05 pm 
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StrongRad wrote:
Jitka wrote:
HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote:
People should be allowed to do what they want with their own body.

Period.

If the drugs cause them to interfere with the lives of others in a negative way, it's the person's fault, not the drug's.


Right, people should be allowed to do what they want, but not at the risk of harming others, which is why I mentioned the Heroin Clinic thing in like my second post. And don't complain that it wouldn't be fun enough to take heroin in a clinic, and people wouldn't want to do it. If you don't like it, you don't get to do it.

This is, of course, assuming we wanted to legalize anything stronger than pot, which I don't agree with in the first place. Stuff that can't really hurt you, though, like pot and LSD, whatever, go for it. :coachz:

I don't argue with pot. Most of the people I know that are potheads lack the motivation to damage anyone or anything. The LSD thing I don't agree with. Don't people whacked out on LSD do crazy things to people sometimes?


I thought that was PCP. As far as I know, LSD only makes you hallucinate, not become paranoid and nuts like PCP can do.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:39 am 
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Jitka wrote:
I thought that was PCP. As far as I know, LSD only makes you hallucinate, not become paranoid and nuts like PCP can do.

Brian Wilson.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:47 am 
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Einoo T. Spork wrote:
Jitka wrote:
I thought that was PCP. As far as I know, LSD only makes you hallucinate, not become paranoid and nuts like PCP can do.

Brian Wilson.

Charlie Manson?

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:50 am 
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StrongRad wrote:
Einoo T. Spork wrote:
Jitka wrote:
I thought that was PCP. As far as I know, LSD only makes you hallucinate, not become paranoid and nuts like PCP can do.

Brian Wilson.

Charlie Manson?

Billy Crystal Meth

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:25 pm 
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Quote:
Don't people whacked out on LSD do crazy things to people sometimes?


This reminds me of the movie where a busy official is talking to his son on the phone who has a crossbow and is threatening to fire at random pedestrians after taking acid.

what was that...

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:02 am 
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The Noid wrote:
Quote:
Don't people whacked out on LSD do crazy things to people sometimes?


This reminds me of the movie where a busy official is talking to his son on the phone who has a crossbow and is threatening to fire at random pedestrians after taking acid.

what was that...


Anchorman?

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:10 am 
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Yeah that's it. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:55 am 
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Okay, slightly off topic, but I can't help bringing this up.

I really think that this would be a downright awesome biological-style weapon: gorillas on PCP. I mean, all you need is one or two of them, throw them at a building with some terrorists inside, and those terrorists will be either outside or flattened in under a minute.

The only problem with this plan is the world undersupply of gorillas, but hey, in a perfect world.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:25 am 
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Problem is, lots of drugs are highly addictive.

And drugs are expensive. Problem is, being addicted to heroin doesn't help you keep a good job to support your heroin addiction.

So, for example, crack heads commit a lot of crimes to get more money for crack.

That's not good for society.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:03 pm 
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lahimatoa wrote:
Problem is, lots of drugs are highly addictive.

And drugs are expensive. Problem is, being addicted to heroin doesn't help you keep a good job to support your heroin addiction.

So, for example, crack heads commit a lot of crimes to get more money for crack.

That's not good for society.

That's my problem with "my body, my choice" when it comes to drugs.
So long as you're not out robbing to get money, I'll agree with people of this persuasion. However, when you start affecting others, well, it's no longer "your body, your choice".

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 1:54 am 
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And at that point, by all means, punish the abusers with the full extent of the law based on whatever damages can be gleaned from what they did. But don't say that it's the drug's fault. They still decided to take that chance, and overestimated their own responsibility. However, don't let that ruin it for drug users with self-control. The fact that those people chose to commit that crime while under the influence of that drug doesn't mean it should be made illegal for everyone. Some people get into drunk driving accidents, but alcohol isn't illegal, at least not anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:08 am 
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...drug users with self-control


Um, maybe I'm way off base here, but I have yet to see someone on crack who has self control. Same goes for meth, heroin, or even cigarettes for that matter.

The one common denominator for drugs is that they are incredibly addicting. Otherwise people would quit them a long time before ruining their lives.

Once you've started on the path, you've pretty much already given up your self-control. That's why they're illegal.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:23 am 
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hey so shouldn't alcohol be illegal too

I mean, if you think that just because some people are irresponsible that the thing should be completely banned, then alcohol should be banned as well. I'm sure that small amounts of pot can have some sort of health benefits - I'm not sure at all, but I'm only guessing.

EDIT: Also, I think part of the reason it's illegal is because of money and that it cannot be made, but again, I could be wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:33 am 
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hey so shouldn't alcohol be illegal too


Not really. There are millions of people who can drink in moderation. It's apparently fairly easy to have a drink once in a while without turning into an alcoholic and ruining your life.

Cocaine, meth, heroin? Not so much. Maybe I'm wrong here, but there aren't many (if any) recreational cokeheads.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:58 am 
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So, do you know all the people in the world who use pot, cocaine, meth, heroin, and all the people in the world that drink alcohol?

Because I don't, and I can't speak for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs?
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:18 am 
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You can't seriously say that alcohol is as bad a drug or as serious a threat as meth, crack and heroin, can you?

I mean, I know there's alcohol users who let it control them, like drunk drivers and alcoholics or whatever, but it's still not as bad as the really heavy stuff, I can't help but think.

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