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Who is you choice for President?
Poll ended at Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:02 am
Barack Obama 73%  73%  [ 8 ]
John McCain 27%  27%  [ 3 ]
Third Party Candidate 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 11
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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:06 pm 
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Mikes! wrote:
MooKoo has yet to respond to my reply about Romney's demagoguery. I'd like to see a response.

I don't know what MooKoo will say, and I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I'd say that you might be reading too much into it. You've got to look at where he was when he said it. PACs are like the craziest, most narrow minded, and most partisan groups in their respective parties.

You have to result to things like this to get them going.

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 Post subject: Obama is a socialist
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:31 am 
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So turns out Obama's a socialist. Now, there are a lot of people who don't have a problem with that, and that's fine. But there are some people who are unaware of that fact.

If he's elected (and it appears that is increasingly a lock to happen), he's going to expand the federal government into more areas than it's ever been. It'll be like FDR, part II. And in my opinion, that's not good for the economy. The feds can't manage things very well, let alone something as complicated as the economy of the United States.

I'm anticipating a world of hurt, financially, when Senator Obama takes the White House.

But I could be wrong. Just calling it like I see it.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama is a socialist
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:43 am 
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Be more specific. What do you expect him to do that will hurt the economy.

Also, didn't FDR get us out of the Great Depression?

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 Post subject: Re: Obama is a socialist
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:48 am 
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Jitka wrote:
Be more specific. What do you expect him to do that will hurt the economy.


This.

New York Times wrote:
Sen. Obama cited new economic forces to explain what appears like a return to an older-style big-government Democratic platform skeptical of market forces. 'Globalization and technology and automation all weaken the position of workers,' he said, and a strong government hand is needed to assure that wealth is distributed more equitably.


He fails to understand that globalization and technology and automation help workers in the long run. Ask workers from the 18th century... things weren't good then. With the introduction of the assembly line, for example, workers became more productive and therefore more financially valuable to their bosses, therefore they got more money.

If he works to prevent this process of technological advancement, it will not be a good thing.

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Also, didn't FDR get us out of the Great Depression?


Not at all. WWII did.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama is a socialist
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:58 am 
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You forget that the Fed and all the money it puts out is worthless in the real world. Whats it backed by? Nothing, just our word.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama is a socialist
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:00 am 
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
You forget that the Fed and all the money it puts out is worthless in the real world. Whats it backed by? Nothing, just our word.


True, but I'm confused as to how this is relevant.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama is a socialist
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:01 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
You forget that the Fed and all the money it puts out is worthless in the real world. Whats it backed by? Nothing, just our word.


True, but I'm confused as to how this is relevant.

Me too.

It is a very true statement, though.

"Wealth redistribution" scares me...

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 Post subject: Re: Obama is a socialist
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:07 am 
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Sorry for being off topic but can we either make this the new '08 elections thread or bump the old one (and possibly merge this one into it) because I have an Obama-related rant to post but it's not relevant to this rather narrow topic.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama is a socialist
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:08 am 
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Ingiald wrote:
Sorry for being off topic but can we either make this the new '08 elections thread or bump the old one (and possibly merge this one into it) because I have an Obama-related rant to post but it's not relevant to this rather narrow topic.


Not a bad idea. This topic is too narrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama is a socialist
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:44 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
You forget that the Fed and all the money it puts out is worthless in the real world. Whats it backed by? Nothing, just our word.


True, but I'm confused as to how this is relevant.

Because no matter who gets in office, the Economy is still going to be funked up because we back our money with something worthless.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:47 am 
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Because no matter who gets in office, the Economy is still going to be funked up because we back our money with something worthless.


Hmm. How long has our money been backed by the good word of the feds? Seems we've been okay so far.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:54 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
Hmm. How long has our money been backed by the good word of the feds? Seems we've been okay so far.

Not really. The price of a hamburger has gone up from 25 cents to $5.00, Gas was 1.92 a gallon in 95 (I think), and now its getting closer to $5 a gallon.

Since when were Hamburgers and Gasoline equals?

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 Post subject: Re: Obama is a socialist
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:55 am 
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
You forget that the Fed and all the money it puts out is worthless in the real world. Whats it backed by? Nothing, just our word.


Not quite true... it's all backed by more debt. Your credit cards, your mortgages, your student loans. That's what the money we have is backed up by. Crazy but true (go read about the gold standard some time).

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 Post subject: Re: Obama is a socialist
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:55 am 
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Stu wrote:
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
You forget that the Fed and all the money it puts out is worthless in the real world. Whats it backed by? Nothing, just our word.


Not quite true... it's all backed by more debt. Your credit cards, your mortgages, your student loans. That's what the money we have is backed up by. Crazy but true (go read about the gold standard some time).

I know, I've read it.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:57 am 
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Well inflation is normal. You can't say "stuff is more expensive than it was 50 years ago, so we're screwed."

Also, where are these $5.00 hamburgers?

Do you know when we stopped backing our money with gold or whatever?

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:57 am 
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
lahimatoa wrote:
Hmm. How long has our money been backed by the good word of the feds? Seems we've been okay so far.

Not really. The price of a hamburger has gone up from 25 cents to $5.00, Gas was 1.92 a gallon in 95 (I think), and now its getting closer to $5 a gallon.

Since when were Hamburgers and Gasoline equals?

When was a hamburger that's $5 now $0.25?
In 95, gas was less than $1.92.
I found a receipt in my old car from my first fill-up in 96, and it cost me $10 for 12 gallons.
Also, how long has it been since we've been on a non-gold backed standard? Everything has shot up in the last 10 or so years, and I can tell you we've been on a non-gold standard for longer than that.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:58 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:

Also, where are these $5.00 hamburgers?



Well there are like 50 dollar gourmet hamburgers with extra crap on them but other than that I've never heard of a 5 dollar hamburger.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:00 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
Well inflation is normal. You can't say "stuff is more expensive than it was 50 years ago, so we're screwed."

Also, where are these $5.00 hamburgers?

Do you know when we stopped backing our money with gold or whatever?

April 5th, 1933, I think...

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:09 am 
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The Noid wrote:
lahimatoa wrote:

Also, where are these $5.00 hamburgers?



Well there are like 50 dollar gourmet hamburgers with extra crap on them but other than that I've never heard of a 5 dollar hamburger.

Hardees has a "6 dollar burger" that's something like 4.90-something.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:10 am 
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Obama's going to become president, then a bunch of bad stuff's going to go down.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:22 am 
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gunluva wrote:
Obama's going to become president, then a bunch of bad stuff's going to go down.


I'd like to avoid this kind of general negativity. If you have specific reasons why you think this, please state them.

Quote:
Maybe the inflation topic should be its own thread.


Back to the election.... just because I don't like Obama doesn't mean I'm all that happy about McCain, either. Far as I've discovered, I only agree with him on

1. Nuclear power.
2. Don't pull out of Iraq immediately.
3. Conservative SCOTUS judges.


Not exactly my ideal candidate.

How sad is it that the one candidate with extensive success in the public sector was rejected for being Mormon? I thought we were above that.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama is a socialist
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:37 am 
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
lahimatoa wrote:
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
You forget that the Fed and all the money it puts out is worthless in the real world. Whats it backed by? Nothing, just our word.


True, but I'm confused as to how this is relevant.

Because no matter who gets in office, the Economy is still going to be funked up because we back our money with something worthless.
That's because we're not backed by gold anymore after the Nixon administration.

But that should never have happened.

In fact, the constitution never authorized a basis on currency on anything other than gold and silver.

Enjoy your self-depricating and valueless money.

ron pawl

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:39 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
gunluva wrote:
Obama's going to become president, then a bunch of bad stuff's going to go down.


I'd like to avoid this kind of general negativity. If you have specific reasons why you think this, please state them.

Quote:
Maybe the inflation topic should be its own thread.


Back to the election.... just because I don't like Obama doesn't mean I'm all that happy about McCain, either. Far as I've discovered, I only agree with him on

1. Nuclear power.
2. Don't pull out of Iraq immediately.
3. Conservative SCOTUS judges.


Not exactly my ideal candidate.

How sad is it that the one candidate with extensive success in the public sector was rejected for being Mormon? I thought we were above that.

He wasn't rejected for being mormon anymore than Hillary was for being a woman (or white).
There were people that just didn't like him. I like McCain more. I've always thought our president should be from a military background of some sort.
Also, despite what the libertarians say, I like the idea of campaign finance reform, bipartisan action (which Romney did seem to like, as well, to be fair), and I like McCain as a person.

Romney had the look, though, for sure.

I still think that we make him some sort of figurehead, like make him give all the speeches or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama is a socialist
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:39 am 
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HHFOV wrote:
]That's because we're not backed by gold anymore after the Nixon administration.

But that should never have happened.

In fact, the constitution never authorized a basis on currency on anything other than gold and silver.

Enjoy your self-depricating and valueless money.

ron pawl

This is why I chew and melt coins.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:42 am 
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Also, it doesn't help that the Federal Reserve creates money out of thin air so that money can be loaned to banks from the government more easily, and the excess of bills created out of nothingness eventually makes the bills themselves. As crazy as it might sound, I think we would actually benefit from a gold standard, or at least an option to trade with something that didn't depricate before your very eyes and has maintained the same value for hundreds of years.

But toastpaint, and yeah McBama sucks.

That's why I'm pullin' for Barr.



also barr got endorsed by ron pawl

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:43 am 
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He wasn't rejected for being mormon anymore than Hillary was for being a woman (or white).
There were people that just didn't like him. I like McCain more. I've always thought our president should be from a military background of some sort.


Please give me some reasons why people just didn't like him. And no points for being a genius at turning bad companies into huge successes?


Quote:
Romney had the look, though, for sure.

I still think that we make him some sort of figurehead, like make him give all the speeches or something.


That's one thing that bugs me. Ever since Kennedy/Nixon, we've cared way too much about looks. But I guess we're just people... and people are shallow.

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That's why I'm pullin' for Barr.


Convince me to vote for Barr. I'm interested in him, but don't know much about his policies yet.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:46 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
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He wasn't rejected for being mormon anymore than Hillary was for being a woman (or white).
There were people that just didn't like him. I like McCain more. I've always thought our president should be from a military background of some sort.


Please give me some reasons why people just didn't like him. And no points for being a genius at turning bad companies into huge successes?

Can't say for sure why he didn't get points for being a good business man. You'd think republicans would eat that up.
As for why people didn't like him, I think he was insanely arrogant in the way he campaigned. He practically ignored every state but Florida.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:47 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
gunluva wrote:
Obama's going to become president, then a bunch of bad stuff's going to go down.


I'd like to avoid this kind of general negativity. If you have specific reasons why you think this, please state them.


I would, but then you'd all think I was crazy/crazier than you previously thought.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:50 am 
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StrongRad wrote:
Can't say for sure why he didn't get points for being a good business man. You'd think republicans would eat that up.
As for why people didn't like him, I think he was insanely arrogant in the way he campaigned. He practically ignored every state but Florida.


I know for sure he spent loads of time in Iowa... he spent five times more time there than the Huckster did and still lost it. He also campaigned in New Hampshire, Wyoming, and Nevada. I'm looking for a full list.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:59 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:

Convince me to vote for Barr. I'm interested in him, but don't know much about his policies yet.
He maintained a steadfast and conservative, Goldwater-esque voting record during his term in Congress, and he's a realist at understanding how to break the system by using the system. He was behind the impeachment of President Clinton, and being a lawyer can use that side of things to his advantage. Now, being a libertarian, he also understands the need for the preservation of American founding principles, things like balancing liberty with security, and rejects nanny-states. Barr is a strong advocate of local and states' rights, hesitant to impose drastic changes on any given area without the locals' express consent, thus retaining each locality's respective sovereignty. He's a Reagan and a Goldwater conservative who, while maximizing personal liberty and respecting constitutional limits, understands and is willing to act on cases where action needs to be taken. Also, he's for lower taxes and national security. I think there are a lot of Americans out there whose political philosophies align with his, but simply lack the knowledge or the dedication involved in pulling off going to the ballots and voting for him.

http://www.bobbarr2008.com/issues/

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